Turbo Limited Street

[Final Answer]

Anyone interested in a class simular to TSE but with less restrictive rules
4 bolt 76mm turbo with TO4 Flange,stock appearing intake,3400-3450lbs.
Champion,TA heads (no stage II).

The following racers have expressed interest in the class:
Gary Harmon, Willard Brown, Cal Hartline, Dave Wicks, Boost Garcia, Jim Crews
Louie Lopez, Bill (from champion heads)


Gary Harmon-----Final Answer 8.99 @154.65
email TSEWIN98@aol.com

[Turbobuick]

Originally Posted by Final Answer

Anyone interested in a class simular to TSE but with less restrictive rules
4 bolt 76mm turbo with TO4 Flange,stock appearing intake,3400-3450lbs.
Champion,TA heads (no stage II).

The following racers have expressed interest in the class:
Gary Harmon, Willard Brown, Cal Hartline, Dave Wicks, Boost Garcia, Jim Crews
Louie Lopez, Bill (from champion heads)


Gary Harmon-----Final Answer 8.99 @154.65
email TSEWIN98@aol.com

I'ld consider it if my sheetmetal intake was considered stock appearing. What event do you plan to race this class?

[Weakest Link]

Gary

I think this is a great idea. I have been trying to get a stock appearing intake with Champion heads for a long time. I also like the idea of a small 4 bolt turbo. The weight sounds like it is right in the ball park. Let get it going.

Willard Brown
TSE Winner 2003

[Louie L]

I really like this idea. It has a lot of potential. The persons you named are just in FL. I know there are quite a few other cars from outside who would fit right in this class.

[Quickt]

Louie I would be a player count me in. I just talked to Gary on the phone and Sounds like it would be a great class. If I can help you guys get it going just let me know. You might post some rules to help spark interest. I think there are several cars that are in between TSE and TSO.

[Weakest Link]

Louie and Lonnie

I am happy to see you will consider this new class. It is up to us to get it going. Please talk to those people you know. We need all the support we can get. I believe there are others who will join us. Make sure they post on this thread so Gary will have an accurate count.

Thanks,

Willard Brown
Winner TSE 2003

[9sec231]

I like this idea and fl boys gotta stick together i think Roy would be intrested and we have a stage motor progect in the works " class="inlineimg" /> .

[Quickt]

I talked to Mike Siler he is local. He would be good to so put him down.

[Kip]

OK so far it looks like it could be Ohio against Florida. This is getting interesting, I will be watching.
Take care, Kip

[Boost]

right up our alley Gary. Weight seems alright, MOST of us can be there, turbo and intake along with intercooler (any front mount) was some of the things we were trying to lobby for for next years Nats. Don't think that will be happening though. Weight advantage for the "Pewwee's"(109's) still 150lbs. ? Sounds fair ?? In case we've not finished the new motor ?

Names for the class ???
TSE-O (outlaw)
TSE-4 (four bolt turbo)
TSE-F (flexible rules)
TSE-D (despingator)
TSL (limited)

Lets keep throwing fruits into the blender to see where this takes us. Looks good to me gentlemen.

By the way, you boys up there have a possible track rental lined up at Bradenton ??? (Florida's best dragstrip IMO) Would love to do some racing on a Saturday and a Rental on a Sunday. Last time Razor(Julio) and Cal looked into this it did not quite work out. October would be fine. FWIW, I've heard some pretty good things about that new track in Valdosta, GA, which might make it more attractive for some of the fellows in the SE area to join and the hardcores from up north. Hell speaking of hardcores, even Keith Eagan and his boss (the wife) might even come down.

By the way Gary, would we be allowed to run more than 24lbs of boost in this class or would we be limited to 24 lbs. of boost like in TSM

Let us know, we're game...

[Louie L]

I spoke to Gary today and discussed some of the rules for this class. He has a prelim list of the rules. There will be some final discussions on some specifics ect...One thing he reiterated to me is that this will be a racers class, with rules by the racers.

[JCotton]

Wow.... thats great, sounds like the TSO class from 4 years ago before ST2 heads and 88's were allowed. I'm up for that......... always have been, you can count me in

[Quickt]

Where do we go from here? Can we get Richard L. to agree to let the class run at the Nats 2006? If so then need to get it posted on the GSCA board.

Roy, Gary told me we are allowed to go up to 25 :add_wegbr

[Boost]

What was the proceedure Scott and you went though when you guys picked up "TSM" by the horns and ran with it. Lets agree on rules, bounce it off Richard and see if we get the GSCA's blessing. I was told we needed to shake it up a little to try and get a better turn out on TSE.

You gentlemen pretty much know where we (Laz and I ) stand, and what we'd like added, we have some flexibility and are willing to change the combo up a little.

Lonnie, lets see how everybody else thinks, if not, 25lbs. will have to do...

[Louie L]

Harmon told me that basically hes been given the go ahead. Gary has limited computer access so hes trying to get the rules into Pc format and go from there.

[Veesix]

I talked to Gary tonight and he is going to post the rules tomorrow.He did call Richard Lassiter and talked to him about the new class. Richard is ok with it.Richard told Gary he would like a 12 car minimum to start a new class and I don't see that as a problem.

[Quickt]

Originally Posted by Boost

What was the proceedure Scott and you went though when you guys picked up "TSM" by the horns and ran with it. Lets agree on rules, bounce it off Richard and see if we get the GSCA's blessing. I was told we needed to shake it up a little to try and get a better turn out on TSE.
:

First off you must have a set of rules. A list of racers that you are not afraid to call up on the carpet to get them to show up. (Scott and I would make phone calls to get guys out to race.) Then submit the rules and class name to the GSCA to see if they will allow the class to run at the nats 2006 so you can get the rules posted one the GSCA board. If you dont get the race at the Nats makes it very hard to get anyone else to let you run. We had a hard time first year when we only had 4 TSM racers at Norwalk and Moroaco to get back in the following year. Jim Haas helped out by allowing a race at Bristol but Jim let us know that he wanted more than 4 cars or no race. Car count is important. The rules will need to be different than TSE and TSO. If the rules pull to many cars from TSE or TSO it wont fly. They will not kill one class to make another. We faced this challange with TSS and TSM. Best to have rules that will pull more new racers to the class not pull from the other classes. From the list of guys that I have seen so far most will be new blood. Might Help to see if you can get a race at Reynolds this year to see how it turns out. I am sure you can draw a TSE guy or two at races other than BG. We did with TSS at the other races. Trust me you will know after a race or two who you can trust to show up.

[Boost]

We've changed the combo around a litttle (weight, heads, turbo) to switch back and forth from TSM to TSE. From what you are saying TSE would remain as is, with the same weight, intercooler, 3 bolt turbos, and a possibility of allowing the Champion or BG intake only as a potential change.

Gary is proposing a new "softer TSE" class as long as it does not interfere with the existing TSE. I guess my ??? to Gary and the rest of the potential participants would be:

On this new class, where do we stand on allowing, 4 bolt turbos, front mount intercoolers, weight, 109 weight advantage. I can tell you that in my situation, We'd be jumping to Garys class to try to go a little faster, especially with the new motor.

Reynolds and the new class sounds fine to us, if not we'll probably go to TSM for that event.

What else we've got gents ?...

[Quickt]

Roy you will have your package next week just get Laz moving on it. " class="inlineimg" /> I dont see how you could make a weight break for a 109 if you drop to 3400-3450 across board makes for a tech nightmare if you have 3 weights to tech and keep track of. Guess we will see what Gary comes up with. TSE will never be a 4 bolt 3400lb turbo class. The guys who race that class will never go for it. With TSE class participation up this year makes for even a harder time to get major changes made. Looks like the intake might make it in this year. I would take the TSE rules tweak them for turbo limited street and leave them alone. If you try to make everyone happy or open the rules too much then you have the same mess they have in TSO . I say open the rules in TSO and let those guys battle it out. Min weight, tire size one two or 3 turbos who cares, ladder bars or not, some basic rules and let them be a brung what you brung outlaw class. I would like to see TLS be limited in turbo to say 76 to4 class. If you dont have tuff shit.

[Veesix]

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Turbo Street Limited – TSL (Proposed Rules )

General
• Qualifying ET is 10.20 or quicker.
• Heads-up pro tree start and pro ladder or full tree heads-up decided at drivers meeting
• Winner and runner-up are subject to re-weigh and re-tech immediately after final round or at any other time.
• Any entrant caught trying to deliberately break the rules will be disqualified from the TSL class.

Chassis
• Seat belts, lights, horn, and windshield wipers must be operational.
• Helmet and fire jacket required. Car must pass track safety inspection.
• Car should possess all applicable safety equipment for potential ET/speeds attained.
• Minimum car weight w/driver must be at least 3,400 pounds.
• Complete stock, painted Turbo Regal/Grand National body required. Use of fiberglass limited to bumpers and hood only.
• Stock wheelbase required (108.0" measured).
• Engine/firewall must be in stock location.
• Stock operating glass windows and windshield required no lexan.
• Factory stock suspension locations required w/any type stock location shocks.
• Any suspension stabilizer/reinforcement bars or traction enhancing devices are allowed.
• Swaybars may be removed.
• No ladder bars or coil over equipped rear

Suspension.
• Outer frame rails notching allowed. Inner frame rails remain in the stock location.
• Reinforcement at inner rear frame rail allowed.
• No quarter panel modifications except rolled inner lip.
• Minor modifications to stock rear wheel wells to permit inside clearance to frame (no mini-tubs).
• Factory stock appearing inner front wheel wells required. Trimming allowed for downpipe clearance.
• Parachutes OK
• Brake system line locks allowed.
• Brake system may be either Power Master, vacuum boost operated, or manual brakes.
• Drive shaft safety loop required.
• Driver's name and club decal on side/quarter windows allowed. Sponsor/vendor decals are acceptable.

Engine
• Stock, Stage 1 or 2 Buick V6 off-center or on-center cylinder blocks are allowed.Aluminum block ok with a 50lb weight located forward of the firewall or battery and box/hold-down in stock location.
• Iron, Stage 1, aluminum M&A, Champion, or T/A cylinder head castings allowed.
• No Stage 2 iron or aluminum heads allowed.
• Any valve covers and oil pan allowed.
• No dry sump-oiling systems. External pumps OK
• Factory stock style intake manifold required. No sheet metal intakes allowed. NEED FEED BACK ON SHEET METAL INTAKES
• Aftermarket cast intakes allowed. Bowling Green, Champion etc.
• Factory stock plenum w/spacer or aftermarket cast aluminum intake plenum allowed. Any size single modified stock or aftermarket throttle body allowed. Single throttle plate only.
• Any type stock location exhaust headers are allowed. Welded in EGT gauge probe bungs are allowed.
• Any single or dual exhaust system allowed. Must have functional muffler and exit behind rear edge of door. (4" max size).
• UP to 4 inch downpipe size is allowed from turbo. It must be routed down through the stock location. No flex pipe allowed.

Turbo
• One (1) 4-bolt turbo allowed.Must have stock orientation Note: The largest allowable turbo compressor wheel is up to and including 76mm. Maximum opening size anywhere on the compressor housing inducer must be less than 77.50mm.
• Allowable turbo compressor housings are a Precision Turbo & Engine P/N PTE4x3, a Garrett P/N 446560-0001 or a Turbonetics P/N 20466.
• Must fit an unmodified T-O4 gasket
• Any wastegate configuration acceptable, external wastegate(s) may be plumbed back into the exhaust system, or externally dumped.

Intercooler
• Any stock location or front mount air to air intercooler is allowed. * No part of a stock location intercooler (not the shroud) may extend down no more than 12.00” below the centerline of the crankshaft. A front mount intercooler except for the piping may not extend down below the bottom of the stock located radiator support.
• No liquid intercoolers, intercooler external spray cooling or add-on cold boxes allowed.

Engine Management & Fuel System
• Stock or modified stock ECM, aftermarket fuel management system are allowed (DFI, Fel-Pro, Motec, etc.).
• MAF optional.
• Any air induction system allowed. No hoodscoops
• Any fuel pump(s) configuration/location allowed.
• Voltage increasing and fuel pump hot wiring devices are allowed.
• Any fuel lines allowed.
• Any fuel rails allowed.
• Any type fuel pressure regulator allowed. Any fuel injectors allowed 7 maximum. The 7th injector MUST get its fuel supply from the fuel rail.
• Factory stock fuel tank w/sump addition or a fuel cell is allowed.
• Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed.

Engine Compartment
• A/C and heating equipment may be removed.
• Power steering operational w/belt in stock location or manual box.
• Stock alternator operational w/belt in stock location. Relocation brackets allowed as long as alternator is still on driver's side, front of engine.
• Stock water pump operational w/belt in stock location and or electric pump
• Any engine compartment dress-up allowed.
• Battery may be in any location.
• Any stock type/location electric engine cooling fan(s) allowed.
• Any stock or replacement radiator in stock location allowed.

Transmission
• Any GM automatic transmission allowed. (200-4R, TH400, etc.)
• Any torque converter allowed.
• Any transmission oil cooler and pan allowed.
• Transmission brake allowed.

Differential
• Any stock width differential housing allowed, +/- 1" allowance.
• Limited-slip differentials or spool allowed.
• Any gear ratio w/factory stock or reinforced differential cover allowed.

Tires & Wheels
• Any matched set of four (4), 15” diameter chrome steel or aluminum wheels allowed.
• Rear drag slicks w/sidewall designation up to and including 29.5” x 10.5” – 15”. No "W" tires allowed. Rear DOT street tires w/sidewall designation up to and including a 29.5” x 12.5” – 15” size tires are allowed.
• FINAL FOOT PRINT TO BE DETERMINED
Front tire footprint must be at least 3.5" wide.

Interior
• Full stock appearing interior required.
• Race seats are allowed only if seats are painted and upholstered to match the factory interior AND SHOULD BE attached to the rear crossbar of the roll cage.
• Any transmission shifter allowed.
• Any additional aftermarket gauges allowed.
• A maximum of 2 hood mounted gauges are allowed.