What is your opinion

[KevinB]

...on TSM using a smaller turbo, say a 67 or so? I was just wondering if this would hurt or help the class.

As I see it, this rule has it's ups and downs.

Ups:
-it would slow the cars down to safer levels of the 109.
-may encourage new racers
-engines may last longer


Downs:
-It's fun to have a mid/low 9 second car (although I'm not at the 9.50 level yet lol)
-some TSM faithful may leave the class
-added expense of buying a new turbo


What are your opinions? I'm just curious.

[Ronnie]

I say leave it alone. Why would anyone want to slow it down? If someone can afford to buy motors let them blow. I think people want to see tsm the way it is ! If there is a vote team banana votes no on smaller turbo's.

[KevinB]

I say leave it alone. Why would anyone want to slow it down? If someone can afford to buy motors let them blow. I think people want to see tsm the way it is ! If there is a vote team banana votes no on smaller turbo's.

Thanks for your opinion.

Anyone else?

[Slow91z]

As a guy who would like to start running TSM I would like see the turbo size go down...I wouldn't feel like I was totally out gunned...Of course I still would be.

[SGRIM]

I think it should be left alone, the 70 that is out now doesn't move enough air for our combo, that's why we haven't ran yet....

I personally feel there should be another class or TSM (Pro) & TSM (Am) and have a 67 limit. There are a lot of people looking a class to run and TSS is to strict IMO so....

[KevinB]

I think it should be left alone, the 70 that is out now doesn't move enough air for our combo, that's why we haven't ran yet....

I personally feel there should be another class or TSM (Pro) & TSM (Am) and have a 67 limit. There are a lot of people looking a class to run and TSS is to strict IMO so....

The problem with splitting the class is that you may create even smaller fields at the smaller races.

[Kip]

I think it should be left alone, the 70 that is out now doesn't move enough air for our combo, that's why we haven't ran yet....

I personally feel there should be another class or TSM (Pro) & TSM (Am) and have a 67 limit. There are a lot of people looking a class to run and TSS is to strict IMO so....



Shane, I have mentioned the two class idea to Lonnie and Scott years ago when I saw the typical TSM car turn into race cars. My thoughts are iron heads, no larger than a 67mm turbo, AC and heat on the car, 200r4, and 3500. I think there are alot of cars out there already built this way looking for a place to race. I see Kevin's point about taking racers from one group to the next but if the rules are enough different that would not happen. I can only think of two guys who could have crossed over from this year and stepped down.
Let me know your thought, Kip

[Grumpy]

My thoughts are iron heads, no larger than a 67mm turbo, AC and heat on the car, 200r4, and 3500. I think there are alot of cars out there already built this way looking for a place to race.
Let me know your thought, Kip

I'd like that BUT I think the more classes that come up the smaller the fields like others have said.. sorry but the Buicks are a dyeing breed :trink26:

[gbsean]

I too would like to see another class....I cant run with the TSM guys...and TSS is way too strict....only thing I can do is bracket.....

[RAMM]

I can see the need for a new class due to the TSM big dogs running low 9's with their cars. As impressive as those numbers look, we can safely say after the 5.90 in the 8th, these motors don't last long and the payouts don't warrant changing engines after a couple races when the block gives up the ghost. With the economy the way it is people are holding their wallets close and not spending much on anything car related. I would much rather run those numbers in a Staged motor with some longevity then to be throughing money at a 109 every time I cook one. But like Kevin said, I am not at that level so that would not apply to me, but the class is out of reach for me with a heavy street car and cutting it up is not a option.

[Kip]

Guys you are not going to see a smaller TSM Feild as the people with the cars that I described are not racing TSM now. A new class like me and Shane are talking about will give a whole new crowd a reason to load up there cars and take them to an event.
See ya, Kip

[HighPSI]

You will still end up with a mid 9 second car if someone wants to go after it. Look what Don Palumbo ran 3 years ago.

[SGRIM]

That was an AWESOME combo Cal!

[Scott231]

My thoughts are iron heads, no larger than a 67mm turbo, AC and heat on the car, 200r4, and 3500.
Well the 67mm turbos today are capable of 780HP and at 3,500 pounds you are talking 9.50s at 141 Max. The average TSM car today runs in the 9.7 range at under 140MPH. Although I am comparing apples and oranges (TSM Jr maximum to average TSM today), what's the point? You can still run iron heads (@3,400 lbs), AC and heat in TSM with a 200-4R. Just ask Jason Cramer - 9.63@140 :shock:

This class would encourage manufacturing companies to use their aluminum heads molds and pour iron into them (shirley it is not that easy!) but the breakage issue is simply the HP levels being applied to a block that wasn't designed for >500 HP. The peripherals don't matter for ET and MPH.

IMHO, if you want another class you'll have to go lower than the 67mm inducer turbos to "save on breakage."

[Sam Colalillo]

I have a very strong opinion on this. I do not think the turbo size should be decreased. I remember the first BUICK event I went and watched. I was amazed at how the cars in this class were going. Then I started meeting some of the people that race this class. My wife and I decided we wanted to be part of it.

This class is going to grow I know 2 people that are focusing on building competitive TSM cars. One of them will be ready next year for sure, the other one might be.

I have not been into Trubo Buicks that long but I completely agree with the core values that the pioneers of this class developed. Which are, the weight, block and turbo.

[KevinB]

BTW......A few others and I counted the possible TSM racers for BG '09. We came up with 23:headbang:

[Kip]

Well the 67mm turbos today are capable of 780HP and at 3,500 pounds you are talking 9.50s at 141 Max. The average TSM car today runs in the 9.7 range at under 140MPH. Although I am comparing apples and oranges (TSM Jr maximum to average TSM today), what's the point? You can still run iron heads (@3,400 lbs), AC and heat in TSM with a 200-4R. Just ask Jason Cramer - 9.63@140 :shock:

This class would encourage manufacturing companies to use their aluminum heads molds and pour iron into them (shirley it is not that easy!) but the breakage issue is simply the HP levels being applied to a block that wasn't designed for >500 HP. The peripherals don't matter for ET and MPH.

IMHO, if you want another class you'll have to go lower than the 67mm inducer turbos to "save on breakage."



Scott,when did Jason switch to iron heads?
Thanks, Kip

[Kip]

Well the 67mm turbos today are capable of 780HP and at 3,500 pounds you are talking 9.50s at 141 Max. The average TSM car today runs in the 9.7 range at under 140MPH. Although I am comparing apples and oranges (TSM Jr maximum to average TSM today), what's the point? You can still run iron heads (@3,400 lbs), AC and heat in TSM with a 200-4R. Just ask Jason Cramer - 9.63@140 :shock:

This class would encourage manufacturing companies to use their aluminum heads molds and pour iron into them (shirley it is not that easy!) but the breakage issue is simply the HP levels being applied to a block that wasn't designed for >500 HP. The peripherals don't matter for ET and MPH.

IMHO, if you want another class you'll have to go lower than the 67mm inducer turbos to "save on breakage."



FYI, the head mold switch over is not that easy.
Easy to skin that cat anyways, have the rule state an as cast by Buick "8445"
head casting number.
I have had a customer break a block with a 63mm turbo so does that mean we need to switch what I posted to smaller than that?
Take care, Kip

[Scott231]

Scott,when did Jason switch to iron heads?
Thanks, Kip
He didn't. But if you put iron heads on his car, I think it would be a safe bet that the car would still be in the 9's. And as I recall, Cramer's car has always been on the heavy side, so he would have some "wiggle room."

[Kip]

Ok Scott, so here is where we are at on this you THINK Jason would run 9s with a smaller turbo and iron heads.

Cal, what did Don run in this trim? I remeber high 9s for sure butdon't know if he ever did better than that or not. Also what weight was he at and did he meet the rest of the above rules?

Thanks guys, Kip

[ijames]

I'm "just" a spectator who loves to watch the amazing performances in tsm, not a racer, but I think a tsm jr class would be a good idea. Go all the way to a 60 mm turbo at 3500 lbs or maybe 62-63 mm at 3800 lbs to keep the class in the mid 10's. That makes the cars much more durable and much cheaper since you don't need a full cage and the other things that kick in at 9.99 (like a license), and makes a significant distinction between tsm and tsm-jr. You probably won't lose tsm cars but lots of guys who want to try heads-up racing instead of brackets would have a place to start without feeling so outgunned. Keep all the rules besides the turbo and maybe weight the same as tsm so it's not too strict, and that way guys who already have aluminum heads can keep them. I'd watch it :-).

[SGRIM]

That is what TSS is supposed to do. When we finally have our event there will be a class to fit this "need!"

[Kip]

The rules I posted earlier would let a car with aftermarket fuel management and front mount intercoolers race. Those are two big items that are missing from TSS that lots of guys haveon their cars. I do not want to take away/kill any class, I just want to see a class that alot of people fall into be created.
Thanks guys, Kip

[NUTS4LC2]

How about TSM Outlaw !! :rock: Just keep the 109, body & wt rule.

[Kip]

TSM outlaw would be a very small class.
See ya, Kip

[Quickt]

How about TSM Outlaw !! :rock: Just keep the 109, body & wt rule.

Been done. There was one car showed up.

[SGRIM]

TSM outlaw, I got a car and a motor for that class:icon16:

Seriously though, I agree there needs to be some kind of class for the average TSM guys... What Mr. Kerney, Don Cruz, Jason W, Dave B., I could go on but you get the idea is amazing With Heavy hitters like that there is no way in hell the average guy can compete with a snow balls chance in hell of winning... Not knocking them, they just took it to the next level and deserve a big applause... TSM will remain the Pinnacle of what a stock block can do!

That does leave alot of cars that run 10.0+ looking somewhere to run and have a chance to win....

We will be happy to sponsor a new class if anyone is interested, seriously. I dought it will happen at a GSCA event, but I am working on that too!

[V6RACER]

TSM outlaw, I got a car and a motor for that class:icon16:

Seriously though, I agree there needs to be some kind of class for the average TSM guys... What Mr. Kerney, Don Cruz, Jason W, Dave B., I could go on but you get the idea is amazing With Heavy hitters like that there is no way in hell the average guy can compete with a snow balls chance in hell of winning... Not knocking them, they just took it to the next level and deserve a big applause... TSM will remain the Pinnacle of what a stock block can do!

That does leave alot of cars that run 10.0+ looking somewhere to run and have a chance to win....

We will be happy to sponsor a new class if anyone is interested, seriously. I dought it will happen at a GSCA event, but I am working on that too!


Wow, I don't think I'm at the level of those guys yet but here's my "OPINION" and it is like an asshole..everyone has one.


You will decrease the size of the classes no matter what. It doesn't matter what the rules are you will always have a few that take it to a level that everyone else will not or can not get to.. Then you create another class for those individuals and the class get's that much smaller. It's a never ending cycle. I hope that all the TSM cars will continue to step up and push to run the numbers. I do think that everyone will get closer and closer in times as the information gets out on what you have to do and how you do it. I would love to see the weights go down. This also will allow cars to get to that next level with a safer car. You will not be able to put down a 9.0-9.2 pass every time on these blocks, so a 9.4-9.6 car is going to be the one to go rounds.

If you want to make a class where everyone has a chance then you better start a 10.0 Index class.

[Slow91z]

Jason, while I agree with you that there may be a couple of TSM racers that would step into this class, therefore making TSM smaller, I think that "most" TSM racers would stay in TSM.

I think there are so many cars built already to fit this class (does anybody have any ideas what to call this class so I can quit saying "this class"?) that the turn out would have the potential to be huge right out the gate with "new" racers (like myself), that would love to run TSM, but know that they are so behind that they (I) feel like they (I) have no shot in hell at even being a mid-packer.

[BLACK6PACK]

Didn't Laz/Roy run 9.30s in TSM trim with 8445 heads?

I think you're really going to have to go down to a street turbo for a class slower than TSM. No bigger than a 54 or the modern equivalent. Something that is limited to mid to low 10s. Grumpy's daughter is running 9.90s with heat/ac, 200, etc and she's doing it on alky with a 67 turbo. I'd like to see a slower class. It's a good $50,000 minimum to get a consistent mid 9.50s tsm car.

[SGRIM]

I was thinking 64 or smaller, even 62 or smaller. I agree trying to keep it above 10.0 would be cool. It would be nice to have a chance to run to win without worrying about the block and full cages etc.... That would be a true street class...

TSM is the Bomb don't get me wrong. I don't think it would hurt car count that much. Just maybe open up oppurtunity for others to run a class...

Turbo size and a SL/IC should be the 9's killer:icon16:

[Quickt]

The crazy thing is the class really is not getting any smaller. Its larger than it was with new blood coming in. The guys are sticking it out and pushing to go faster. Kevin B last year 10.30s this year 9.70s and finished up in the 60s. Tim L. last year 9.90 this year 9.60s finished up 9.50s. Jason is correct there is always going to be a few that go faster than others but for the most part I think this past year the competition was great. There was more than one racer to beat ,there were several that could have brought home a win. In the olds days the two leaders had the field covered by .6 or more. The pack of racers based on time that they finished up the year are within a couple tenths and some closer than that to average ETs run in competition. When Dave a Roy had the ET duel in reynolds most of us came home thinking the class would be dead with those times that were run. They laid down mid 9s and the pack was in the 10.30s. TSM is still here several years later. Most stuck it out and now run in the mid 9s and some low 9s.

As far as a new class goes I agree with Jason. 10.0 index is the way to go. Then you can do away with 10 pages of rules for all to fight over. Make few basics rules Turbo, weight, tire etc to keep faster cars out and go at it. Still heads up run on pro tree pro ladder.

[Quickt]

Didn't Laz/Roy run 9.30s in TSM trim with 8445 heads?

I think you're really going to have to go down to a street turbo for a class slower than TSM. No bigger than a 54 or the modern equivalent. Something that is limited to mid to low 10s. Grumpy's daughter is running 9.90s with heat/ac, 200, etc and she's doing it on alky with a 67 turbo. I'd like to see a slower class. It's a good $50,000 minimum to get a consistent mid 9.50s tsm car.

9.61 was the official number. They did go faster with Iron heads in TSE trim.

[NUTS4LC2]

You will decrease the size of the classes no matter what. It doesn't matter what the rules are you will always have a few that take it to a level that everyone else will not or can not get to..

So true...



I do think that everyone will get closer and closer in times as the information gets out on what you have to do and how you do it.


It does not get out :mad: That's why the average joe can't do it. If u don't have enough $$$, info is not shared with u. Just tell me...how much whp exactly does it take to run low 9's on a TSM combo? Do u guys mind sharing that?

[Scott231]

It does not get out :mad: That's why the average joe can't do it. If u don't have enough $$$, info is not shared with u. Just tell me...how much Rwhp exactly does it take to run low 9's on a TSM combo? Do u guys mind sharing that?

Simple - at #3,550:
In order to go 135 MPH you need 680 HP. To go 145MPH you need 840HP. 150 requires 935!

There are not too many secrets anymore in these motors. Build a 249ci stroker, Hi-flowing heads, headers, big intercooler, the latest 70mm turbo and a killer fuel system to feed it. That'll get you the MPH. To run the ETs and survive a Pro tree, you must have a transbrake and the suspension parts. I think most of us run the HR anti-sway bar in back. Most everything else is weight reduction/placement or little (expensive) things to extract another .05 here and there. A 200-4R will not suffice.

[KevinB]

Simple - at #3,550:
In order to go 135 MPH you need 680 HP. To go 145MPH you need 840HP. 150 requires 935!

There are not too many secrets anymore in these motors. Build a 249ci stroker, Hi-flowing heads, headers, big intercooler, the latest 70mm turbo and a killer fuel system to feed it. That'll get you the MPH. To run the ETs and survive a Pro tree, you must have a transbrake and the suspension parts. I think most of us run the HR anti-sway bar in back. Most everything else is weight reduction/placement or little (expensive) things to extract another .05 here and there. A 200-4R will not suffice.

A stroker?? What's that???:lickit:

[V6RACER]

Simple - at #3,550:
In order to go 135 MPH you need 680 HP. To go 145MPH you need 840HP. 150 requires 935!

There are not too many secrets anymore in these motors. Build a 249ci stroker, Hi-flowing heads, headers, big intercooler, the latest 70mm turbo and a killer fuel system to feed it. That'll get you the MPH. To run the ETs and survive a Pro tree, you must have a transbrake and the suspension parts. I think most of us run the HR anti-sway bar in back. Most everything else is weight reduction/placement or little (expensive) things to extract another .05 here and there. A 200-4R will not suffice.


It takes more than just those items... and MOST of the TSM cars are over 3550..

[V6RACER]

It does not get out :mad: That's why the average joe can't do it. If u don't have enough $$$, info is not shared with u. Just tell me...how much whp exactly does it take to run low 9's on a TSM combo? Do u guys mind sharing that?


My car is for sale if you really wanted to know.. It would be alot less expensive to buy the car than to build it..

[Scott231]

My car is for sale if you really wanted to know.. It would be a lot less expensive to buy the car than to build it..

OH MOTHER OF GOD! How true that is!

[Scott231]

It takes more than just those items..

And you need a white dot on your turbo...:icon16:

[V6RACER]

And you need a white dot on your turbo...:icon16:

Exactly

[MIKET407]

I am new at all of this, but I have owned my Buick for 15 years. I am slowly working towards maybe runnig a class like TSM. I have almost finished my first motor , combo inc. 109 20 /0ver, JE pistons, K1 rods, 10/10 stock crank, center main caps, self ported heads w/large valves, T&D roller rockers, ported intake w/egr tower removed, mild hyd. cam, arp studs, 65# inj., ATR 3 bolt headers & a gtq 70 would this combo stand a chance in TSM. ? THANKS MIKE T.

[KevinB]

I am new at all of this, but I have owned my Buick for 15 years. I am slowly working towards maybe runnig a class like TSM. I have almost finished my first motor , combo inc. 109 20 /0ver, JE pistons, K1 rods, 10/10 stock crank, center main caps, self ported heads w/large valves, T&D roller rockers, ported intake w/egr tower removed, mild hyd. cam, arp studs, 65# inj., ATR 3 bolt headers & a gtq 70 would this combo stand a chance in TSM. ? THANKS MIKE T.

The 65's may be a little small, but if you get that car to run high 9's to mid 10's you'll have fun. I had a lot of stupid problems come up this year and went out the first round every race.....but I always had a blast with the fellow races.

Just run a TSM race or two. It's very fun and all the TSM racers are good people. Chances are you will get hooked and that combo you'll have will get better with time. My car is the same way. It's still missing a couple of the key parts, but it's getting faster and faster every time I go out and learn something new.

[MIKET407]

Wow, thanks for the encouragement I didn't think this motor would even be in the ballpark. The reason I am starting with the 65's is that I'm going to use a maft pro with no driver upgrade, I will have to save more cash for a good system.

[KevinB]

Wow, thanks for the encouragement I didn't think this motor would even be in the ballpark. The reason I am starting with the 65's is that I'm going to use a maft pro with no driver upgrade, I will have to save more cash for a good system.

I would definitely get an aftermarket fuel injection system. I had the MAFTPro. It was OK, but nothing close to what a FAST, BS3, Gen7 can do.

A buddy's car up here runs low 11's and makes every TSM race he can because it's fun to compete. Heck, he even took me out one time because of issues my car was having. Anything can happen. I won a race last year against one of the fastest cars after he red lighted against me.

[MAX PSI]

We have run the same motor for two seasons at 9.90's or faster. The last season with an average of 9.50's and a best of 9.38. I spun #1 rod bearing taking a ride around the block before putting it away last year. We will use the block again next season with a new crank and 1 new rod. Not bad for a small motor making this kind of power. This is not a high dollar set up,steel crank and rods. We were verry competive last year and plan on being competive next year. Jason White also has a couple seasons on his motor and I'm sure there are others as well.
If we can't catch the top TSM cars I guess we'll have to step up to one of those 3.7.." stroke billit cranks:crying:

[V6RACER]

If we can't catch the top TSM cars I guess we'll have to step up to one of those 3.7.." stroke billit cranks:crying:

Here's what ya got to have:
254/254 billet camshaft
Berilium Lifters
3.75 stroke lightweight billet crank
Titanium rods with modified thickness on the big end
3.880 bore
All 6 cylinders sleeved
All water jackets filled with hardblock
extra studs etc.


That just the shortblock.. Now you still have to have heads and intake..

[KevinB]

Here's what ya got to have:
254/254 billet camshaft
Berilium Lifters
3.75 stroke lightweight billet crank
Titanium rods with modified thickness on the big end
3.880 bore
All 6 cylinders sleeved
All water jackets filled with hardblock
extra studs etc.


That just the shortblock.. Now you still have to have heads and intake..

Hey, that's my setup for next year....how did you get that info?

[V6RACER]

Hey, that's my setup for next year....how did you get that info?

Your banana buddy !!

[KevinB]

Your banana buddy !!

The thumbsucker!! haha

[MAX PSI]

With chevy rods that 3.75 crank would fit?

[NUTS4LC2]

Simple - at #3,550:
In order to go 135 MPH you need 680 HP. To go 145MPH you need 840HP. 150 requires 935!

There are not too many secrets anymore in these motors. Build a 249ci stroker, Hi-flowing heads, headers, big intercooler, the latest 70mm turbo and a killer fuel system to feed it. That'll get you the MPH. To run the ETs and survive a Pro tree, you must have a transbrake and the suspension parts. I think most of us run the HR anti-sway bar in back. Most everything else is weight reduction/placement or little (expensive) things to extract another .05 here and there. A 200-4R will not suffice.

Scott, thanx for sharing, now I have some guidelines as to what whp is needed to run such mphs.


Here's what ya got to have:
254/254 billet camshaft
Berilium Lifters
3.75 stroke lightweight billet crank
Titanium rods with modified thickness on the big end
3.880 bore
All 6 cylinders sleeved
All water jackets filled with hardblock
extra studs etc.


That just the shortblock.. Now you still have to have heads and intake..

Jason, how far can it be taken w/o filling the block? I want a street car with no overheating issues. Is ur cam really that high??? I read somewhere & thought I read it was a smaller roller? Thanx.

[Scott231]

The 254 cam size is a joke. Although there are people that have run cams as big as 24x/24x, connecting rods made of titanium (they do break!), Sonny Bryant crankshafts ($$$!!!), blocks that have been bored out beyond 3.840 (which is beyond what people on the internet say is even possible!) and even a TH-350 was under one of the early TSM big guns.

Somewhere in the anals of one of my many HDDs is a picture of the engine block that Tony Occhipinti split in two...yeah, split in two!

[KevinB]

Scott, thanx for sharing, now I have some guidelines as to what whp is needed to run such mphs.




Jason, how far can it be taken w/o filling the block? I want a street car with no overheating issues. Is ur cam really that high??? I read somewhere & thought I read it was a smaller roller? Thanx.

My car is a stock stroke, .020 over, chinese crank and rods, zero block fill. It gets driven a lot. I've never had any luck on a dyno, so no real numbers there. It will sit in traffic all day and never go above 160 with a front mount and a f-body radiator. No a/c though.

[SGRIM]

The 254 cam size is a joke. Although there are people that have run cams as big as 24x/24x, connecting rods made of titanium (they do break!), Sonny Bryant crankshafts ($$$!!!), blocks that have been bored out beyond 3.840 (which is beyond what people on the internet say is even possible!) and even a TH-350 was under one of the early TSM big guns.

Somewhere in the anals of one of my many HDDs is a picture of the engine block that Tony Occhipinti split in two...yeah, split in two!

So I guess a bigger one is going to be even more funny:icon16:

[Quickt]

Here's what ya got to have:
254/254 billet camshaft
Berilium Lifters
3.75 stroke lightweight billet crank
Titanium rods with modified thickness on the big end
3.880 bore
All 6 cylinders sleeved
All water jackets filled with hardblock
extra studs etc.


That just the shortblock.. Now you still have to have heads and intake..

:happy: WOW A guy would need a bank loan for all that
BTW 3.880 you dont need the sleeves.

[V6RACER]

Jason, how far can it be taken w/o filling the block? I want a street car with no overheating issues. Is ur cam really that high??? I read somewhere & thought I read it was a smaller roller? Thanx.

Oh, that information isn't about my engine.. That is what I would build if I had the $$. :party43:

I just have a .020" over non filled block with a hydraulic cam in mine. Very streetable. I drive mine back and forth to my local track which is 20 miles each way to race. Street car. :sprite10:

[Scott231]

So I guess a bigger one is going to be even more funny:icon16:
I presume you are referring to the cam size comment. Per a conversation someone had with a well known turbo engine builder, "mixing a 7,500 RPM cam with a 6,500 RPM limited turbo isn't the best approach" <- danger - paraphrasing a comment relayed to me years ago!

However, both Tony Occhipinti and Phil McGloin (racers) as well as Pete Barton and Lonnie Diers (engine builders involved with these two racers) can testify to the alternative.

But please take notice, TSM has assisted in pushing turbo manufacturers to further improve the 70mm units. I am told that today's best "70s" run better than the run of the mill 76mm unts out there. I firmly believe Tony was the first to prove that once the relatively weak stock crank is replaced with a steel unit, the block has become the limiting factor. If you want opinions on why the blocks break, I am sure that just like assh0les, everyone has one. :trink26:

[SGRIM]

Yeah, I was told the same thing. I don't dought it either. Got to try something different sometimes... I am sure our S/B will not make many passes at full boost... More $ up top:icon16:

[87LC2]

Pretty interesting thread.so is there enough (or any) interest in a tsm jr class?i like heads up racing and this is affordable (for now) way to get feet wet.
thx
ed

[Scott231]

Pretty interesting thread.so is there enough (or any) interest in a tsm jr class?i like heads up racing and this is affordable (for now) way to get feet wet.
thx, ed

Doesn't matter how many people are interested...until someone is willing to stand up, take charge, organize and direct it. That has happened for TSM, TSO and TSA. Everyone has ideas, but not everyone is willing to work toward the goal.

P.S. Whoever takes charge -- be ready to be the focal point of lots of controversy. :dunno:

[V6RACER]

P.S. Whoever takes charge -- be ready to be the focal point of lots of controversy. :dunno:

Along with anyone who is winning or setting records.. :lickit:

Next year is going to be interesting..:barthose:

[southern boost]

Hey Scott are you stepping down has class ra or what ? You need to let everyone know what your thinkin because we would love to keep the class goin ,but we would need some advice from you. I think you do fine by everyone would hate to see you leave and I would be glad help at the races I'm at pls let me and the rest of the crew know what you would like to do . I understand ,if your burnt out on the drama and i'm not tryin start crap just would like to know.:racer:


thanxs Randy

[Scott231]

As long as I stay employed in the Midwest, I will be running the TSM Point Series. Hopefully for years to come.

[Ted A.]

As long as I stay employed in the Midwest, I will be running the TSM Point Series. Hopefully for years to come.

Scott, for the class this is great news. Although I don't run the class, as a outsider I feel you have done a great job. You enforce the rules, call out the B.S. and get the job done. Oh, and without any fights... http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/4739/jacksmileyaw1.gif

[Kip]

Doesn't matter how many people are interested...until someone is willing to stand up, take charge, organize and direct it. That has happened for TSM, TSO and TSA. Everyone has ideas, but not everyone is willing to work toward the goal.

P.S. Whoever takes charge -- be ready to be the focal point of lots of controversy. :dunno:




Guys check out the Turbo Hot Street section on this board.
See ya, Kip