TSO Payout money

[HighPSI]

For those that don't know, it is my responsibility (the RRA) to get sponsors for the TSO class at BG next year.

I want to personally thank Jack Cotton for stepping up to the plate with his $201 donation. The $200 Hartline Performance donated just wasn't enough for him. Jack and I will continue to solicate other vendors to donate to the class.

[V6RACER]

Too cool.. Imagine all the people, living life in peace woo hoo....

[opeltwinturbo]

How much money is the GSCA paying for TSO? Is this money in addition to the GSCA payout purse?

[Otto J]

How much money is the GSCA paying for TSO? Is this money in addition to the GSCA payout purse?

:add_wegbr

[10SecGN]

How much money is the GSCA paying for TSO? Is this money in addition to the GSCA payout purse?


Counting the GSCA's money the total pot is now up to $458 :biglaugh:

[HighPSI]

I guess a "Thank You" is in order for Sully. Thanks for donating $57 :D

[Baadgn]

For those that don't know, it is my responsibility (the RRA) to get sponsors for the TSO class at BG next year.

I want to personally thank Jack Cotton for stepping up to the plate with his $201 donation. The $200 Hartline Performance donated just wasn't enough for him. Jack and I will continue to solicate other vendors to donate to the class.

Cal,

Bob just called and said to put him down for a $100 so a $100 from RPE machine

[10SecGN]

I guess a "Thank You" is in order for Sully. Thanks for donating $57 :D

Hey I said counting the GSCA'a money it was up to $458 :D

[HighPSI]

Cal,

Bob just called and said to put him down for a $100 so a $100 from RPE machine

Thanks Tony!! I'll give you a call today to get all the details. Let him know his information will appear in the race program along with announcements over the track PA system.

[HighPSI]

Hey I said counting the GSCA'a money it was up to $458 :D

Cotton- $201
Hartline- $200
GSCA- $0
Sully- $57
------------
Total- $458

Got it! Thanks again!

[10SecGN]

Cotton- $201
Hartline- $200
GSCA- $0
Sully- $57
------------
Total- $458

Got it! Thanks again!



Ok.. but my entry is a contingency prize. You have to have a "I love Gay Porn" bumper sticker on your car for the whole event :D

What about Anderson Performance?

More importantly... what about TSM :D

[Otto J]

More importantly... what about TSM :D

Hartline Performance paid oiut more for TSM in Reynolds than the GSAC did

[HighPSI]

What about Anderson Performance?

More importantly... what about TSM :D

This thread isn't about TSM. The intent was to increase payouts by encouraging vendors/individuals to help in this cause. If Billy wants to sponsor the class, we will welcome/encourage him to do so. Thank you for muddying up the waters with your weak attemp at humor :rainbow:

On a positive note. I have spoken with most of the TSO racers and we are hoping to pay back to anyone who races TSO. Even if you lose 1st round :beer:

[Ted A.]

Cotton- $201
Hartline- $200
GSCA- $0
Sully- $57
------------
Total- $458

Got it! Thanks again!


I assume the $0 is a typo? How much will GSCA be contributing to the TSO race payout?

[10SecGN]

This thread isn't about TSM. The intent was to increase payouts by encouraging vendors/individuals to help in this cause. If Billy wants to sponsor the class, we will welcome/encourage him to do so. Thank you for muddying up the waters with your weak attemp at humor :rainbow:

On a positive note. I have spoken with most of the TSO racers and we are hoping to pay back to anyone who races TSO. Even if you lose 1st round :beer:


Well excuse me for thowing a little levity into the mix. Geez. :scared1: I guess it is only ok to be funny if you make the jokes. :aajack:

I was just trying to help by reminding you to call Anderson for a donation as well.

[EightSecV6]

I assume the $0 is a typo? How much will GSCA be contributing to the TSO race payout?

Ted, it is quite possible the GSCA has spent their money on postage (post cards), and cannot add anything to the pot.

Cal,
I appreciate the offer for advertising as a sponsor but to be honest, Anderson Performance will not contribute $1 to ANY class in Bowling Green. I dont want to get into a big explanation or even a pissing contest for that matter but I have my reasons and IN MY OPINION they are legitimate. Just like every year in the past I am sure it will be "the greatest GS Nationals yet". My visit to the GSNats is ususally positive one. I almost always leave there with a substantial amount of the clubs money from super16(D!ck put me on the trailer early last year and I didnt get a dime:D ). The prize money has dwindled over the years and now they want money from the racers to pay the racers. I may show up with SOMETHING to win some money but will not be donating any.
:biglaugh:

[V6RACER]

Ted, it is quite possible the GSCA has spent their money on postage (post cards), and cannot add anything to the pot.




Hey Billy, I got a cool postcard from Silver Dollar Raceway if you want it..You could mail one back to whoever sent you one..:icon16:

[EightSecV6]

Hey Billy, I got a cool postcard from Silver Dollar Raceway if you want it..You could mail one back to whoever sent you one..:icon16:

I would LOVE to mail something back, even a thank you card BUT apparently I didnt get a return address.:arco:

[turbo-t]

good morning gentlemen:
i love bg and hanging out with all my buick brothers,i think its a shame about the prize money thing,but i;m not goining to get into all that.cal you know me i've broke bread and ate red fish with you the last 2 years in bg.over at the rv park.those guys reall know how to put on a fish fry:arco:
i'll be running tso at bg next year for the first time:scared1:
count me in for $500 if that sets the standard then lets aLL STEP UP AND GIVE MORE MONEY! look at it like a tso gamblers race :haha:
my car was not ready this year for bg,but we will be ready next year:arco:
i own the big tire 86 t-type true back/halved car "CATEGORY 6" WE RAN 8:17 AT 167 MPH at the gsca this year.lc drove the car.
weighs in at 3060 lbs.:yikes: we call it ''HEAVY DUTY'' BUT SHE WILL GO A LITTLE FASTER NEXT YEAR:arco:
looking forward to lineing up with you guys next year with my little 87 turbo-t outlaw drag-radial car :beer:
cal, let me know how to handle the money for my sponsership ok?
until then,keep um between the walls brothers.
be FAST,and be safe
your buick brother,
bobby don (the ole man with the slo buick):hmmm:

[HighPSI]

$500!!! WOW!!! Bobby has set the standard. PM me your phone number. I would like to call you to corrdinate the details.

The total payout is now over $1000!!!
Thanks to:

$500 Bobby Don
$201 Cottons
$200 Hartlines
$100 Bobby@RPE

There are some others in the works.

[Otto J]

For that kind of payout,Ill have to make sure my car is not broken and i attend this event!

[HighPSI]

Just got another new sponsor! Dave Fiscus is donating $202 to the TSO class at Bowling Green. Welcome aboard Dave!

The total payout is now over $1200!!!
Thanks to:

$500 Bobby Don
$202 Fiscus Trucking
$201 Cottons Performance
$200 Hartline Performance
$100 Bobby@RPE

With this much sponsorship. We can pretty much guarantee a payback to 8 cars. Additionally, I intend to have T-shirts made up with all the sponsors names listed. Anyone who qualifies will get a T-Shirt.

[Otto J]

$1200!!!! Too bad my car is always broken and never makes events:bawling:

[JCotton]

$1200!!!! Too bad my car is always broken and never makes events:bawling:

Finish it.... dammit and lets go racin.... this weekend at Atco.... maybe I'll have you drive the GMHTP car and see if you can get it in the 10's.... :icon16:

[Otto J]

Gotta an extra turbo laying around with a T4 flange?
Thats all its waiting for to start.

If not I will be there this weekend and would love to drive the GMHTP car.

[JCotton]

Gotta an extra turbo laying around with a T4 flange?
Thats all its waiting for to start.

If not I will be there this weekend and would love to drive the GMHTP car.


Get in your truck and get up here, I have a super76BB sitting on the shelf. You are welcome to test it out. Midframe with a T4 flange... I ran it at Atco track rental in the spring, I think I ran a 9.30 around 140 somthing..... with a hurt motor on a soft launch... good fresh motor should have much better times...

Opps, Bubba said he's drivin it..... we may have to give him driving lessons......

[Otto J]

Damn tempting...... But that would require me putting in major overtime finishing the seat install,boost controller wiring,stilll need to weld int pipes in place and make the downpipe i have fit.If i had a bit more time..... or Brian was here,Send him down with it!!

[JCotton]

Damn tempting...... But that would require me putting in major overtime finishing the seat install,boost controller wiring,stilll need to weld int pipes in place and make the downpipe i have fit.If i had a bit more time..... or Brian was here,Send him down with it!!

load it up and get up here, bubba will help. he does all that chit blindfolded..... and I am serious... about doing it....

[Ted A.]

Otto get off your a$$ and get it down there. Pretty nice offer on Jacks part. :arco:

[HighPSI]

Just wanted to thank Otto Pernek of Otto's Dyno & Performance for sponsoring TSO. Otto flipped the bird at Dave and Jack with his $203 sponsorship.

The total payout is now $1406!!!

Thanks to:

$500 Bobby Don
$203 Otto's Dyno & Performance
$202 Fiscus Trucking
$201 Cottons Performance
$200 Hartline Performance
$100 Bobby@RPE

[Louie L]

Holly crap.. I may have to buy a bigger turbo and go racing with yall!!

[HighPSI]

Just wanted to thank Adam Landolfi and Frank Madar of Landy'sPerformance.com for their $100 sponsorship of TSO. Thanks guys!!

The total payout is now $1506!!!

Thanks to:

$500 Bobby Don
$203 Otto's Dyno & Performance
$202 Fiscus Trucking
$201 Cottons Performance
$200 Hartline Performance
$100 Bobby@RPE
$100 Landy'sPerformance.com

[HighPSI]

This is getting out of hand!! Ed Stilwagen of Atlantic Clam Farms, Inc. just donated $500 to the TSO class at the GS Nationals. Any of you that attended the fish fry at Reynolds this year know just how good Ed's clams are. I hope Otto can persuade him to donate some clams for the Bowling green Fish fry!

The total payout is now $2006!!!

Heck, I'll donate another $1 just so I can make it $2007 for 2007!

Thanks to:

$500 Bobby Don
$500 Atlantic Clam Farms, Inc.
$203 Otto's Dyno & Performance
$202 Fiscus Trucking
$201 Cottons Performance
$201 Hartline Performance
$100 Bobby@RPE
$100 Landy'sPerformance.com

[JCotton]

This is getting out of hand!! Ed Stilwagen of Atlantic Clam Farms, Inc. just donated $500 to the TSO class at the GS Nationals. Any of you that attended the fish fry at Reynolds this year know just how good Ed's clams are. I hope Otto can persuade him to donate some clams for the Bowling green Fish fry!

The total payout is now $2006!!!

Heck, I'll donate another $1 just so I can make it $2007 for 2007!

Thanks to:

$500 Bobby Don
$500 Atlantic Clam Farms, Inc.
$203 Otto's Dyno & Performance
$202 Fiscus Trucking
$201 Cottons Performance
$201 Hartline Performance
$100 Bobby@RPE
$100 Landy'sPerformance.com


I've been thinking about this all weekend...... I'm also going to throw a contingency cash prize into the mix for racers using specific parts purchased from Cottons Performance, including turbos, engine management, Intercoolers and more. Expect to see $ amounts and a complete list of parts and details soon... :bigok:

[HighPSI]

For 2007, I wil continue with my $100 winner/$50 runner up contingency money.

BTW: I posted a question for the GSCA racers at:
http://p066.ezboard.com/fbuickgsclubofamericafrm8.showMessage?topicID=125. topic

[Otto J]

load it up and get up here, bubba will help. he does all that chit blindfolded..... and I am serious... about doing it....

Well if we only had this conversation last week,I got 2 cars to finish this week and I want my car on the dyno before its first run down the 1320.

If the offer is still available in a few weeks.......:hmmm:

[HighPSI]

Just wanted to thank Chris Lyons of Advanced Chiropractic & Rehab for sponsoring $100 for TSO. Chris has always been a heavy hitter in the TSO field. I'm sure he is planning on winning his money back with interest! Thanks Chris!

The total payout is now $2107!!!

Thanks to:

$500 Bobby Don
$500 Atlantic Clam Farms, Inc.
$203 Otto's Dyno & Performance
$202 Fiscus Trucking
$201 Cottons Performance
$201 Hartline Performance
$100 Bobby@RPE
$100 Landy'sPerformance.com
$100 Advanced Chiropractic & Rehab

[HighPSI]

I spoke with a GSCA representitive today about TSO sponsorship. They are gathering up some funds and plan on adding to our already enormous payout. So far, I plan on paying back at least 8 places. In addition, I plan on having T-shirts made and ASSume the GSCA will be providing plaques for winner and runner up. I appreciate the help all the racers have given me gathering up sponsorship money. Let's keep the $$ coming!

[RACEBUICKS]

Gsca is taking all this money you guys are putting up for payouts and they arent putting anything out? So how's that work?? Richard is smart I want that job................

[fiscus]

WOW! This thing really could take off. Cal, let me know when to send the dollars. I was going to get Botox but this is for a good cause. Maybe we could get some other vendors to kick in too like precision, full throttle, etc.

Dave Fiscus

[opeltwinturbo]

Damn tempting...... But that would require me putting in major overtime finishing the seat install,boost controller wiring,stilll need to weld int pipes in place and make the downpipe i have fit.If i had a bit more time..... or Brian was here,Send him down with it!!

Get Russ to fix it.

[Otto J]

Get Russ to fix it.

:fing26: :fing26:

[EightSecV6]

Awesome payout, hopefully there is an abundance of cars in the field gunning for it.

[HighPSI]

This much payout may draw cars out of other classes. If all goes as planned, every car who races will get paid. Are you planning on attending/racing?

[EightSecV6]

This much payout may draw cars out of other classes. If all goes as planned, every car who races will get paid. Are you planning on attending/racing?

for that kind of money, I may have to put morals aside. Will the GSCA match the sponsorship package?

[Otto J]

for that kind of money, I may have to put morals aside. Will the GSCA match the sponsorship package?

:add_wegbr :add_wegbr

Maybe one of the low dollar ones:add_wegbr

[JCotton]

for that kind of money, I may have to put morals aside. Will the GSCA match the sponsorship package?

Bill, at this point, I don't see the relevance of the GSCA in our classes. Richard has left the payout up to us, lets just run with it and see what we can do to make racing worthwhile from a financial standpoint. It will only compliment our competitive juices and need for speed, they supply the playground like any of the other events, we just show up and have our fun... seems all good to me.... see ya at Atco....

Maybe they will antee up one of those leather coats... for the winner

[HighPSI]

I just wanted to thank Tom & Bill of Champion racing Heads for their generous donation of $200. Bill's car recently ran 9.03 at Reynolds in TSO trim.

The total payout is now $2307!!!

Thanks to:

$500 Bobby Don
$500 Atlantic Clam Farms, Inc.
$203 Otto's Dyno & Performance
$202 Fiscus Trucking
$201 Cottons Performance
$201 Hartline Performance
$200 Champion Cylinder Heads
$100 Bobby@RPE
$100 Landy'sPerformance.com
$100 Advanced Chiropractic & Rehab

[Reaper]

I'll Kick in 3 bucks to make it an even 2310

[Mike Licht]

Cal, I may jump in here as add to the pot but I have a question first. Do we send the money to you or the GSCA? How do we make sure the money goes to the TSO Class only? I am not 100% happy about how some of my sponsor money has been handled in the past and have decided to make a few changes in how we handle it
Mike

[Mike Licht]

Maybe better to just call me 586 294 4404

[Dusty Bradford]

This looks like it could get big. We got to get Todd crackin on his GN for TSO also. He's got a Hartline motor and met a few of you guys already.

Cal, will his sheetmetal intake and external oil pump be allowed? It was cheaper to use the old sheetmetal intake that came on the old round track motor than to swap.

How about V8 cars with a couple injector wires off:icon16:

[Otto J]

External oil pumps were allowed as well as sheetmetal intakes in the past
Hey get PTC to throw in!

[HighPSI]

I would like to welcome Full Throttle Speed on board. Mike has generously offered to pay for the TSO qualifier T-Shirts (approx $250 value). Thanks Mike.

This should be the largest payout ever for a Buick race. Expect it to grow, since I have several other sponsors pending.

[Reaper]

Cal, Dont forget about my 3 dollar offer...

[HighPSI]

Although, we appreciate your offer :lmao: . The GSCA has limited it to a $100 minimum if you want recognition. If you don't care, I'll collect from you next week while I'm tuning in AZ.:D

[Reaper]

I wont be in town for the event Cal. :frown:

I'll be elk hunting in North Eastern AZ. I leave weds. the 22nd and unless I get one opening day I will not be at the event.

[Otto J]

Ya he will be out killing poor defenseless animals.
Takes a real man,Now if you said you were gonna go kill one bare handed fighting,That would be something

[Dusty Bradford]

External oil pumps were allowed as well as sheetmetal intakes in the past
Hey get PTC to throw in!

If I can sell a couple converters to some TSO guys I'm sure they'd chip in. Looks like the fastest TSM car will be running one.....any TSO guys need a converter??:arco:

[Otto J]

If there sending me one to try out, Sure i need one:biglaugh:

[V6RACER]

If I can sell a couple converters to some TSO guys I'm sure they'd chip in. Looks like the fastest TSM car will be running one.....any TSO guys need a converter??:arco:

PTC convertor works good in my car... Dusty call me.

[Dusty Bradford]

If there sending me one to try out, Sure i need one:biglaugh:

I'd like to try a 274 with an 88 to see if it will spool like I like and still lock up. I can work something out....it won't be free but will get you the perfect converter for your car and save you a little $$ for your effort.

[Otto J]

well i have the 274 and will have the 88 soon:arco:

[Dusty Bradford]

well i have the 274 and will have the 88 soon:arco:

What rpm will you be shifting at???? I got my wheels turning:D

[Otto J]

7200 or so

[HighPSI]

I want to thank Steve Thompson of Mid Atlantic Heavy Hauling for his $100 sponsorship donation for the TSO class. Steve has an awesome 67 Firebird with a GN drivetrain in it. Thanks Steve!

The total payout is now $2407!!!

Thanks to:

$500 Bobby Don
$500 Atlantic Clam Farms, Inc.
$203 Otto's Dyno & Performance
$202 Fiscus Trucking
$201 Cottons Performance
$201 Hartline Performance
$200 Champion Cylinder Heads
$100 Bobby@RPE
$100 Landy'sPerformance.com
$100 Advanced Chiropractic & Rehab
$100 Mid Atlantic Heavy Hauling

Jack Cotton is working on some more sponsors and I have a few more pending.

[Mike Licht]

Hey Cal? I guess we don't make the list :(

[HighPSI]

That's a BIG mistake on my part! Here's the CORRECT list:

The total payout is now $2407!!!

Thanks to:

$500 Bobby Don
$500 Atlantic Clam Farms, Inc.
$203 Otto's Dyno & Performance
$202 Fiscus Trucking
$201 Cottons Performance
$201 Hartline Performance
$200 Champion Cylinder Heads
$100 Bobby@RPE
$100 Landy'sPerformance.com
$100 Advanced Chiropractic & Rehab
$100 Mid Atlantic Heavy Hauling

24 TSO qualifier T-Shirts donated by FullThrottleSpeed

[Mike Licht]

Cal it was just a joke, but thanks!
Mike

[HighPSI]

Not a joke to me, Mike. You donated just like everyone else. I want to give credit where credit is due. Thanks again!

[HighPSI]

BTW: The GSCA will be providing plaques and I am lobbying to have the jacket made again this year. They took a beating last year for doing the jacket. Oddly enough, everyone I have spoken to wanted a jacket.

[turbo-t]

cal:
you know you and i have talked,we want what is best for tso right?
to not go along with the rules that chris has put forward is not to bright in my opinion.gsca is ONE race.we are goining to have a point series bg are not.
i can only hope that not only cooler heads ,but smarter heads will prevail here.it would be a REAL SHAME if gsca nats would not let us race with our rules in tso.it is my prayer that the gsca uses common sense here.
LETS DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bbtribe:

BOBBY DON (THE OLE WITH THE SLO BUICK):hmmm:

[SGRIM]

These rules can be used at the TurboBuick/T6P.com Nationals next year:arco:

[TurboDiverArt]

This thread isn't about TSM. The intent was to increase payouts by encouraging vendors/individuals to help in this cause. If Billy wants to sponsor the class, we will welcome/encourage him to do so. Thank you for muddying up the waters with your weak attemp at humor :rainbow:

On a positive note. I have spoken with most of the TSO racers and we are hoping to pay back to anyone who races TSO. Even if you lose 1st round :beer:

Damn Cal, you may see me show up....

Art.

[10SecGN]

Damn Cal, you may see me show up....

Art.

I'll buy your race ticket so you don't have to join the GSCA :D

[EightSecV6]

I'll buy your race ticket so you don't have to join the GSCA :D

Is that permitted?:yikes:

[TurboDiverArt]

I'll buy your race ticket so you don't have to join the GSCA :D
Actually I "thought" they were going to change the rules where you didn't need to be a member to race?

Art.

[Otto J]

I'll buy your race ticket so you don't have to join the GSCA :D

I wouldnt do it Art.
Id rather be known as Art Paltz:eclipsee: than Steve Sullivan:17: :add_wegbr

[10SecGN]

I wouldnt do it Art.
Id rather be known as Art Paltz:eclipsee: than Steve Sullivan:17: :add_wegbr

Either way it's better than being know as Otto Pernick :add_wegbr

:loser: :liar: :sux2bu:

[10SecGN]

Is that permitted?:yikes:

I heard you can do it. But you may get left out on the big payouts that come directly from the GSCA. :biglaugh:

[TurboDiverArt]

Actually I "thought" they were going to change the rules where you didn't need to be a member to race?

Art.

Seriously, is this true? Jim C, anyone in power know for sure? I'd hate to tow down there to race in TSO only to find out I can't because I'm not a member....

Art.

[Otto J]

Either way it's better than being know as Otto Pernick :add_wegbr

:loser: :liar: :sux2bu:

Its spelled PERNEK.
Now go get a new box of tissues to dry those championship losing eyes off.
Im sure Dick is enjoying all of the spoils Dave has for the past few year.:owned:

[10SecGN]

Its spelled PERNEK.
Now go get a new box of tissues to dry those championship losing eyes off.
Im sure Dick is enjoying all of the spoils Dave has for the past few year.:owned:

No crying here... I'm happy for Dick. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Don't be so stupid as to misconstrue an attempt to the make the point series better as crying. That would be stupid and make you look like an idiot.

How many passes did you make in other peoples cars this year that you didn't break something? :owned: :owned:

[Otto J]

No crying here... I'm happy for Dick. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Don't be so stupid as to misconstrue an attempt to the make the point series better as crying. That would be stupid and make you look like an idiot.

How many passes did you make in other peoples cars this year that you didn't break something? :owned: :owned:

Lets see
6 passes in Cal's car
10 or so in Romes car (Didnt break)
1 in Lens/Gallinas car
4 or so in Schmidts car before it broke
and the list goes on...........

But my breakage is about as much as yours with your own car.:owned:

Im sure people are miscontruing my attempt,But can blindly see why you want it changed as under your idea you would have won.

Dont remember the points system ever being a problem to you before????

[10SecGN]

4 or so in Schmidts car before it broke


before you broke the rocker or the rod??


But my breakage is about as much as yours with your own car.:owned:


I broke this year? Oh yea a driveshaft. Made finals in every other event.



Im sure people are miscontruing my attempt,But can blindly see why you want it changed as under your idea you would have won.

Dont remember the points system ever being a problem to you before????

Not really the place for this discussion but never noticed the flaw because historically the faster car always won. Come over to the TSM rule thread where your opinions will be properly ignored.

[Otto J]

Not really the place for this discussion but never noticed the flaw because historically the faster car always won. Come over to the TSM rule thread where your opinions will be properly ignored.

Well I guess this started as your typical task of taking a thread off topic seeing you dont run TSO.Ignoring would have been the right thing to do here also

[TurboDiverArt]

Will you two stop bitching at each other please?

[10SecGN]

Well I guess this started as your typical task of taking a thread off topic seeing you dont run TSO.Ignoring would have been the right thing to do here also


All I did was offer to help a friend... Your the one that started with your typical cheap shots. Post #78

[SGRIM]

I am curious on the got to be a member to race rule myself!

[odie]

I was charged a registration fee. plus race tickets at indy, not any different than membership dues to the gsca just my opinion, :arco:

[opeltwinturbo]

I was charged a registration fee. plus race tickets at indy, not any different than membership dues to the gsca just my opinion, :arco:

To race at BG for Saturday Only (Race Day)

Race Ticket $28
Registration Fee (Not Optional) $50
Pit Pass $20
Super 16 Sticker $45
Spectator Ticket $18
GSCA Membership Fee $35

Total @ BG $196

To race at Indy Saturday Only (Race Day)

Race Ticket $30
Registration Fee (Not Optional) $35
Pitt Pass $20
Super 16 Sticker $45
Spectator Ticket $15

Total @ Indy $145


Total to race at BPG Sunday Only (Race Day)

Race Ticket $35
Super 16 Sticker $25
Spectator Ticket $15

Total @ BPG $75

My math says that is $51 more to race at BG than Indy and $121 more to race at BG than BPG. Multiply that times the 250-300 racers and that nets about $10,000-15,000 more than Indy and $25,000 - $35,000 more in gate revenue at BPG. Now, do we need to start talking about where that money goes or payouts?

And, rule #1. Only GSCA members may register to race, show car, or purchase discount tickets. http://www.gsnationals.com/natsregform06.pdf

We all know that the GSCA was the driving force in keeping the Buick community together. Richard took the initative and the risks and has been rewarded for his efforts. It is not about what group does this or what group does that. It is about having fun with fellow Buick enthusiast. Obviously, Indy and the BPG has a different fundimental basis than the GSCA. Neither are wrong. The two club events, BPG and GSCA, are both successful. The way we measure success is also very different. We can co-exist and share our friendships.

[HighPSI]

Sorry about the delay guys, I have been away at the West Coast Nationals and just got back yesterday.

I have been talking/emailing everyone in an attempt to reach a compromise. I'm not sure if this is possible but here's what I came up with. I emailed a similar proposal to Chris Lyons a couple weeks ago. I'm not sure what changes he introduced into his rules since then. I took the current GSCA rules and incorporated some compromises with the Point Series Rules. Those changes are in red.

Turbo Street Outlaw – TSO

General

Qualifying ET is 9.99 or quicker.
Heads-up 4-tenths pro tree start and pro ladder. (1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, 3 vs 14, 4 vs 13, 5 vs 12, etc....)
All cars racing in the Turbo Heads-Up racing class must be owned and driven by a current member of the GSCA.
No peer technical inspections relating to safety equipment rules by class participants or peers, Beech Bend Raceway track safety technician personnel will make all rulings on track safety related items.
Winner and runner-up are subject to re-weigh and re-tech immediately after final round or at any other time.
Entrants caught breaking the rules will be disqualified from the TSO class.

Chassis

NHRA certified seat restraints, helmet and fire suit required.
Car should possess all applicable safety equipment for potential ET/speeds attained and pass track safety inspection.
Parachutes allowed.
Minimum car weight w/driver must be 3,400 pounds with a 100# weight break for factory production blocks, 100# weight break for 82mm and smaller turbos and a 100# penalty for T5/T6 flanged turbos.
Removable ballast is limited to 100 pounds maximum.
Stock wheelbase required (108.0" measured).
Stock operating glass windows and windshield required, no lexan.
Engine/firewall must be in stock location.
Factory stock body lines/contours must be maintained (i.e. hood, doors, fenders, wheel openings, bumpers, trunk lid, etc). *** Non-factory rear stabilizer wings are allowed.
Any fiberglass or carbon fiber body panels, bumpers, etc. allowed, no hood scoops. No removable front ends.
Complete, painted Buick Turbo Regal/Grand National body required.
4 Headlights and horn must be operational.
Stock front inner wheel wells required. Trimming allowed for downpipe clearance.
Full stock GM frame is required, no tube chassis cars are allowed.
Functional radiator required.
Modifications to stock rear wheel wells allowed, mini-tubs are allowed, outer frame rails notching allowed, inner rails remain in the stock location.
Reinforcements at inner rear frame rails are allowed.
Stock style rear suspension only, no ladder bars or aftermarket 4 links allowed.
Coil-over equipped rear suspension allowed.
Drive shaft safety loop required.
No restrictions on braking system, power or manual brakes are allowed.
Brake system line locks allowed.
Wheelie bars are allowed.
A maximum of 2 hood mounted gauges allowed

Engine

Any Buick or TA V6 cylinder block allowed, no cubic inch displacement limits.
Any oil pan allowed, no dry sump oiling system allowed.
Any cylinder heads, allowed.
Any intake manifold and plenum allowed.
Any size single stock or aftermarket throttle body allowed w/single throttle plate only.
Any type of stock location headers & crossover allowed.
No restrictions on engine driven accessories; i.e. alternator, water pump, p/s, etc.
Functional alternator required
A/C and heating equipment may be removed.

Turbo, Downpipe & Intercooler

Any single 3-bolt or 4-bolt turbo allowed with the turbo shaft in stock orientation and the turbo inlet flange within 2" of the stock location. Relocation may be in any direction meaning up, down, fore, aft, inward (toward the engine) or outward (away from the engine) from the stock location using the mounting holes on the front of the passenger's side cylinder head as the fixed reference point.
Turbo compressor size limited up to an 88mm verified with a plug.
Any diameter downpipe size from the turbo is allowed. It must be routed down through the stock location. No flex pipe allowed
A 4” maximum size single or dual exhaust system is allowed. It must muffle and exit at/behind the flywheel, away from the car, equal to the lower body line. * Must run through muffler(s) in competition
Any wastegate configuration allowed.
Any stock location or front mount air to air intercooler is allowed.
Liquid intercoolers allowed with a 100# weight penalty.

Engine Management & Fuel System

Battery may be in any location.
Any ECM/fuel management system is allowed w/ any onboard electronics are allowed.
Any air induction system allowed.
Stock fuel tank w/sump addition or fuel cell allowed.
Any fuel pump(s) configuration/location w/ any fuel lines allowed.
Any fuel rail(s) allowed.
Any type fuel pressure regulator allowed.
Any size fuel injectors allowed, no limit on number used.
Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed.

Transmission

Any GM automatic transmission, 200-4R, TH400 w/ any torque converter allowed.
No Lenco, Liberty or manual transmissions with or without clutch allowed.

Differential

Any type stock width differential housing allowed, +/- 1" allowance w/ limited-slip differentials or spool allowed and any gear ratio allowed.

Wheels & Tires

Any matched set of four 15" diameter wheels allowed.
Slicks w/ sidewall designation up to a 29.5” x 11.50” -15” size tire w/ a maximum measured footprint of 11.25” is allowed, W tires are allowed. ** Phoenix Brand 11.5”standard and W sidewall designation tires are not allowed do to tread width restrictions.
DOT street tires w/sidewall designations up to a 30.0” x 13.50”-15” size tire are allowed .
Interior

Stock dash must be retained with any gauges and any transmission shifter allowed.
Car must have a fully carpeted floor board w/2 front seats, door panels, headliner, applicable interior trim, etc. Rear seat may be removed; area must be carpeted to match interior color.


Let me know what you guys think. :popcorn:

[TurboDiverArt]

When were T06 flanges allowed in TSO? I don't remember that in the rules for 2006? I looked at this years rules on both the GSCA and Buick Horsepower Nations sites and it only mentioned T05 flanges. Maybe listing T06 flanges in the 2007 rules was a typo? I believe for the points series T06 flanges will not be allowed.

Art.

[HighPSI]

T6 flanged turbos were never excluded. I added that rule so someone with a T6 flange wouldn't be exempt from the 100# penalty. It was my understanding for the point series ANY 88mm turbo was allowed. If so why penalize a T5 and not a T6? The "T6" Should be in red. Since I lost my moderator status, I can't change it :(

[Ted A.]

Since I lost my moderator status, I can't change it :(

That's a shame. :hmmm:

[TurboDiverArt]

T6 flanged turbos were never excluded. I added that rule so someone with a T6 flange wouldn't be exempt from the 100# penalty. It was my understanding for the point series ANY 88mm turbo was allowed. If so why penalize a T5 and not a T6? The "T6" Should be in red. Since I lost my moderator status, I can't change it :(
I honestly have never seen a T06 flange. My thought was that if a T05 was bigger and "better" than a T04 where a 100# penalty is levied, then wouldn't a T06 be even bigger and need an even bigger penalty?

Art.

[Baadgn]

Sorry about the delay guys, I have been away at the West Coast Nationals and just got back yesterday.

I have been talking/emailing everyone in an attempt to reach a compromise. I'm not sure if this is possible but here's what I came up with. I emailed a similar proposal to Chris Lyons a couple weeks ago. I'm not sure what changes he introduced into his rules since then. I took the current GSCA rules and incorporated some compromises with the Point Series Rules. Those changes are in red.

Turbo Street Outlaw – TSO

General

Qualifying ET is 9.99 or quicker.
Heads-up 4-tenths pro tree start and pro ladder. (1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, 3 vs 14, 4 vs 13, 5 vs 12, etc....)
All cars racing in the Turbo Heads-Up racing class must be owned and driven by a current member of the GSCA.
No peer technical inspections relating to safety equipment rules by class participants or peers, Beech Bend Raceway track safety technician personnel will make all rulings on track safety related items.
Winner and runner-up are subject to re-weigh and re-tech immediately after final round or at any other time.
Entrants caught breaking the rules will be disqualified from the TSO class.

Chassis

NHRA certified seat restraints, helmet and fire suit required.
Car should possess all applicable safety equipment for potential ET/speeds attained and pass track safety inspection.
Parachutes allowed.
Minimum car weight w/driver must be 3,400 pounds with a 100# weight break for factory production blocks, 100# weight break for 82mm and smaller turbos and a 100# penalty for T5/T6 flanged turbos.
Removable ballast is limited to 100 pounds maximum.
Stock wheelbase required (108.0" measured).
Stock operating glass windows and windshield required, no lexan.
Engine/firewall must be in stock location.
Factory stock body lines/contours must be maintained (i.e. hood, doors, fenders, wheel openings, bumpers, trunk lid, etc). *** Non-factory rear stabilizer wings are allowed.
Any fiberglass or carbon fiber body panels, bumpers, etc. allowed, no hood scoops. No removable front ends.
Complete, painted Buick Turbo Regal/Grand National body required.
4 Headlights and horn must be operational.
Stock front inner wheel wells required. Trimming allowed for downpipe clearance.
Full stock GM frame is required, no tube chassis cars are allowed.
Functional radiator required.
Modifications to stock rear wheel wells allowed, mini-tubs are allowed, outer frame rails notching allowed, inner rails remain in the stock location.
Reinforcements at inner rear frame rails are allowed.
Stock style rear suspension only, no ladder bars or aftermarket 4 links allowed.
Coil-over equipped rear suspension allowed.
Drive shaft safety loop required.
No restrictions on braking system, power or manual brakes are allowed.
Brake system line locks allowed.
Wheelie bars are allowed.
A maximum of 2 hood mounted gauges allowed

Engine

Any Buick or TA V6 cylinder block allowed, no cubic inch displacement limits.
Any oil pan allowed, no dry sump oiling system allowed.
Any cylinder heads, allowed.
Any intake manifold and plenum allowed.
Any size single stock or aftermarket throttle body allowed w/single throttle plate only.
Any type of stock location headers & crossover allowed.
No restrictions on engine driven accessories; i.e. alternator, water pump, p/s, etc.
Functional alternator required
A/C and heating equipment may be removed.

Turbo, Downpipe & Intercooler

Any single 3-bolt or 4-bolt turbo allowed with the turbo shaft in stock orientation and the turbo inlet flange within 2" of the stock location. Relocation may be in any direction meaning up, down, fore, aft, inward (toward the engine) or outward (away from the engine) from the stock location using the mounting holes on the front of the passenger's side cylinder head as the fixed reference point.
Turbo compressor size limited up to an 88mm verified with a plug.
Any diameter downpipe size from the turbo is allowed. It must be routed down through the stock location. No flex pipe allowed
A 4” maximum size single or dual exhaust system is allowed. It must muffle and exit at/behind the flywheel, away from the car, equal to the lower body line. * Must run through muffler(s) in competition
Any wastegate configuration allowed.
Any stock location or front mount air to air intercooler is allowed.
Liquid intercoolers allowed with a 100# weight penalty.

Engine Management & Fuel System

Battery may be in any location.
Any ECM/fuel management system is allowed w/ any onboard electronics are allowed.
Any air induction system allowed.
Stock fuel tank w/sump addition or fuel cell allowed.
Any fuel pump(s) configuration/location w/ any fuel lines allowed.
Any fuel rail(s) allowed.
Any type fuel pressure regulator allowed.
Any size fuel injectors allowed, no limit on number used.
Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed.

Transmission

Any GM automatic transmission, 200-4R, TH400 w/ any torque converter allowed.
No Lenco, Liberty or manual transmissions with or without clutch allowed.

Differential

Any type stock width differential housing allowed, +/- 1" allowance w/ limited-slip differentials or spool allowed and any gear ratio allowed.

Wheels & Tires

Any matched set of four 15" diameter wheels allowed.
Slicks w/ sidewall designation up to a 29.5” x 11.50” -15” size tire w/ a maximum measured footprint of 11.25” is allowed, W tires are allowed. ** Phoenix Brand 11.5”standard and W sidewall designation tires are not allowed do to tread width restrictions.
DOT street tires w/sidewall designations up to a 30.0” x 13.50”-15” size tire are allowed .
Interior

Stock dash must be retained with any gauges and any transmission shifter allowed.
Car must have a fully carpeted floor board w/2 front seats, door panels, headliner, applicable interior trim, etc. Rear seat may be removed; area must be carpeted to match interior color.


Let me know what you guys think. :popcorn:

Soooo.

It looks like you made some concestions to try and line up the 2 classes I think we are pretty close to wrapping these rules up, anybody here from Chris L. We need to close this up If I see it right the differences are lexan windows, inner fenderwells, and some stock type pieces. One thing I would like too add is that this class is an outlaw street type class the why i see it a TSM, TSL, TSM, car should look simaler body and interior wise I don't feel that this class should head in the direction of cut up race cars

[TurboDiverArt]

T6 flanged turbos were never excluded. I added that rule so someone with a T6 flange wouldn't be exempt from the 100# penalty. It was my understanding for the point series ANY 88mm turbo was allowed. If so why penalize a T5 and not a T6? The "T6" Should be in red. Since I lost my moderator status, I can't change it :(

Actually. The TSO Points Series rules do specifically outlaw T6 flanges. Chris stated:

"I don't mind the S2 head rule but why are only penalized the smaller motor? It would seem the larger motor should have the penalty? I wanted to avoid the whole S2 head penalty issue altogether. Like we spoke earlier I feel the turbo is going to be the determining factor. I do want to add no T6 exhaust flanges allowed."

Post #46 in the TSO Points Series Pay Out thread.
http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15230&page=3

Art.

[Baadgn]

I honestly have never seen a T06 flange. My thought was that if a T05 was bigger and "better" than a T04 where a 100# penalty is levied, then wouldn't a T06 be even bigger and need an even bigger penalty?

Art.

Do you even know what a T6 flange is ? What turbos would you consider a T6 that would have a advantage over a T5. Because I know of some T4's that would have an advantage over a T5. Lastly are you planning on racing your car next year or will brian be racing his :hmmm:

[TurboDiverArt]

Do you even know what a T6 flange is ? What turbos would you consider a T6 that would have a advantage over a T5. Because I know of some T4's that would have an advantage over a T5. Lastly are you planning on racing your car next year or will brian be racing his :hmmm:
Tony,

I'm not going to spar with you again, it's too tiresome.
I stated above that I had never seen a T06 flange and that my assumption was that if a T05 is better than a T04 then maybe a T06 is better than a T05. That's it, nothing else.

My other post quoted where Chris had decided that T06 flanges would not be legal in the TSO points series. I don't think Chris's decision has any bearing on the Nats TSO race, only on if the race would potentially be counted in the points series.

Yes, I will be racing a legal TSO car next year, will you?

Art.

[Ted A.]

I can care less if the T6 flange is in. I don't want the T5 in so if that flies then might as well let in the T6's so we can all say we let any turbo in up to 88 IMHO. I think the T6 will not go faster than a T5 but I know where I can shove my opinion. :add_wegbr

[EightSecV6]

Soooo.

It looks like you made some concestions to try and line up the 2 classes I think we are pretty close to wrapping these rules up, anybody here from Chris L. We need to close this up If I see it right the differences are lexan windows, inner fenderwells, and some stock type pieces. One thing I would like too add is that this class is an outlaw street type class the why i see it a TSM, TSL, TSM, car should look simaler body and interior wise I don't feel that this class should head in the direction of cut up race cars


In addition to the differences you posted above, there are several other issues that WILL not permit cars that are legal for "the series" to compete in BG.

-turbo orientation
-dry sump
-headlights/horn
-alternator
-matched wheels
-stock dash
-downpipe routed through stock location

I dont know what a "cut up" race car is, 3400# is still 3400#.

[TurboDiverArt]

In addition to the differences you posted above, there are several other issues that WILL not permit cars that are legal for "the series" to compete in BG.

-turbo orientation
-dry sump
-headlights/horn
-alternator
-matched wheels
-stock dash
-downpipe routed through stock location

I dont know what a "cut up" race car is, 3400# is still 3400#.
Bill,

I think that if BG is going to be more restrictive with its rules, what is really important is to insure that a car that is legal in BG will also be legal in the TSO Points Series. As I see it, the only rule that would invalidate the above is if a T06 flange is legal in BG. That car would not be legal in the Points Series and why I brought up the point.

Art.

[HighPSI]

Actually. The TSO Points Series rules do specifically outlaw T6 flanges. Chris stated:

"I don't mind the S2 head rule but why are only penalized the smaller motor? It would seem the larger motor should have the penalty? I wanted to avoid the whole S2 head penalty issue altogether. Like we spoke earlier I feel the turbo is going to be the determining factor. I do want to add no T6 exhaust flanges allowed."

Post #46 in the TSO Points Series Pay Out thread.
http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15230&page=3

Art.

That may have been stated early on, it wasn't stated in post #72 or the email I received where he listed the current rules.

[SGRIM]

T6 flanged turbos were never excluded. I added that rule so someone with a T6 flange wouldn't be exempt from the 100# penalty. It was my understanding for the point series ANY 88mm turbo was allowed. If so why penalize a T5 and not a T6? The "T6" Should be in red. Since I lost my moderator status, I can't change it :(

Only Jay and I can change edit things on this board. The size of the board doesn't warrant any other admins or mods. The editing feature will be changed back shortly. It was done for a reason. Sorry Cal, I never realized you were a mod here. PM me or call me and we will get this straight:arco:


That's a shame. :hmmm:

Thanks for pointing that out Ted :hmmm:

I don't get it with some of you guys, if post get edited and deleted we are bad guys and if we don't allow editing and deleting we are bad, that really deserves a :hmmm:

[HighPSI]

I don't think Chris's decision has any bearing on the Nats TSO race, only on if the race would potentially be counted in the points series.


Actally Art, it makes a BIG difference. I made these concessions in an attempt to have the SAME rules at every event. If Chris elects to have diferent rules at the other events, then I think we need to keep the BG rules the same as last year, since everyone I talked to can be legal with the current rules.

[HighPSI]

As I see it, the only rule that would invalidate the above is if a T06 flange is legal in BG. That car would not be legal in the Points Series and why I brought up the point.

If you don't want T06 flanges, then I will put that in the rules. Like most of the other changes, it won't effect any of the TSO racers I have spoken to.

[Baadgn]

I dont know what a "cut up" race car is, 3400# is still 3400#.

I said cut up not Lightened up there is a difference would you rather drive your ex fast race car or Avons street type car on the street shirly you see the difference.

[EightSecV6]

I said cut up not Lightened up there is a difference would you rather drive your ex fast race car or Avons street type car on the street shirly you see the difference.

Surely I would rather drive a street car on the street, I was just stating that it wouldnt really make a difference to me how the car was built or what was used for the construction as long as it made weight.

[Baadgn]

Tony,

Yes, I will be racing a legal TSO car next year, will you?

Art.

Yes I will be racing a car next year

[Turbobuick]

Actally Art, it makes a BIG difference. I made these concessions in an attempt to have the SAME rules at every event. If Chris elects to have diferent rules at the other events, then I think we need to keep the BG rules the same as last year, since everyone I talked to can be legal with the current rules.

I would bounce a T6 flanged turbo from the class, that is just common sense. That is a rule infraction that would have an affect on overall power and would not be allowed to run. The class is limited to a T4 flange and a T5 has a penalty how would someone conclude that a turbine flange larger than T5 is allowed in the class?

[Ted A.]

I just got some pics of my new turbo if the current turbo rule passes, (thanks to Steve for holding it up in the picture for me BTW). This guy assured me that this will fit on a T6 flange and it passes the plug test, he advised me that a little spray might help spool it though. :arco:

Lets get these rules finished up so I can start working on my car already.



http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5397/bigturbova6.jpg

[Turbobuick]

In addition to the differences you posted above, there are several other issues that WILL not permit cars that are legal for "the series" to compete in BG.

-turbo orientation
-dry sump
-headlights/horn
-alternator
-matched wheels
-stock dash
-downpipe routed through stock location

I dont know what a "cut up" race car is, 3400# is still 3400#.

You will still need a dash for the points series, rule #8.

[Turbobuick]

Cal,
After speaking with or hearing from EVERY racer who has raced this class for the last three years at various events the points series rules are what the majority of racers want to see. If you do not want to adopt these rules for your race at BG then I wouldn’t make any changes and keep the 4 guys you have that are opposed to the point’s series rules happy. I looked at the rules you have posted and I’ve spoken to several people concerning them and there are still going to be 3 or 4 guys that can’t make the BG due to some BS rule, like the turbo orientation rule for example. For the most part any way you look at it there is going to be some ridiculous rule in there that will keep someone out of the race and just be a headache to have to deal with.

I also can’t figure out why you would want to let in T6 flanged turbo without any penalty?? I thought you, Jack, Otto and Odell were concerned about “ruining” the class by letting in to many changes that make the class faster? The point’s series rules are the SAME nuts and bolts rules that we currently have without any of the BS. The only power enhancing exception made was a liquid IC but with a significant weight penalty that easily will offset any gains a liquid would have over a quality air to air IC.

Like I’ve said before it would be fantastic if we could have all 14 points series racers eligible to race at BG but if we can’t then I can’t include it in the schedule. We have 4 other events to run at with race promoter payouts on top of the points series payouts. I know you could care less about the point’s series but a lot of guys (14) are excited about having a it and will disappointed that the point’s series won’t be at BG.

Are the rules you proposed here what you understand the majority truly want? We are up to 14 racers interested in running the point’s series. I know of 4, including you that are opposed to the simple rules I have listed. Like I said before I am moving forward with or without BG. In the next week or two I will have the business part of a TSO points series finalized and we can begin getting racers and sponsors officially signed up. I can’t tell you if the rules we have will bring more cars to BG but I can promise you they won’t keep any out!

[TurboDiverArt]

Actally Art, it makes a BIG difference. I made these concessions in an attempt to have the SAME rules at every event. If Chris elects to have diferent rules at the other events, then I think we need to keep the BG rules the same as last year, since everyone I talked to can be legal with the current rules.
I agree 100% with you Cal. My point was exactly that. The only reason the rule changes in BG matter is so that the race counts in the points series. If not then you don't need to change them.

Art.

[TurboDiverArt]

If you don't want T06 flanges, then I will put that in the rules. Like most of the other changes, it won't effect any of the TSO racers I have spoken to.
Certainly don't remove it for me, I'm only one guy. I REALLY was only pointing it out because I thought that it would be the only rule that would keep a BG win from counting in the points series.

Art.

[TurboDiverArt]

Yes I will be racing a car next year
That's good. As long as it meets the rules to race then there should be absolutely no drama, issues or arguments.

Art.

[JCotton]

I'd like to begin this response to Chris by sharing a conversation I and others, including Cal had with Richard Lassiter at Reynolds this past month.

Richard shared his vision of how he saw not only the Nationals but what he wanted to convey to the general public what true BUick performance was all about. When photographers and reps from the various magazines, performance tv programs and misc media showed up, he would like to have our cars look somewhat like they did when they left the factory. When the heads up classes line up, whether it be exterior, interior or under the hood, some semblance of a factory appearing car is desirable by him and I have to say by myself, not to mention, I am sure many others. The Nats are what the rest of the world sees, we are the representatives of the Buick turbo car era... For the first time I understood and had to agree with the way Richard saw things and why... The TS in the heads up class stands for Turbo Street.. Stock, Modified, Eliminator, Limited and Outlaw. Now here we are talking about opening up the Outlaw class even more..... when does it stop? We've already allowed way more than I think we should have, somewhere along the way, instead of continually changing the rules to include more combos and cars, we need to leave things alone and alow the participants to catch up and new participants to have a solid bedrock to build on, knowing that every year things are not going to be stepped up and changes are going to be continually needed.

To me, it looks as though Chris is taking a bit of a shot at Cal, OC, Otto and myself for voicing our opinions, for standing up and saying this is enough. Last year WE ALL agreed on a set of rules and I can assure you there were more than 3 or 4 guys involved. When you speak of ridiculous rules, such as turbo orientation, I don't see it that way, I refer back to my 1st paragragh. Not singling you out Billy, but oviously Chris has refered to you, there is no reason to not conform with the turbo rules as far as orientation and maintain some semblance of "stock" appearing. If we are going to be building cars for this class, lets keep it the stock orientation, seems simple to me. It's not like the cars are already built, I believe Avons, Chris, Tony, me, Cal, OC, Otto, Ted, Steve H., Rich R, Dave F., Art P., and I am sure many others I haven't named add up to far more than 3-4 racers..... The same goes for liquid ICers, none of these guys have them, why do we need to add this to the rules now? Makes no sense to me, why the argument, why all these changes, we have a dam good number of participants already, with more to be coming without the changes.

Chris, it appears to me, you are looking to put your signature on a new class, thats not helping OUR class grow, it only serves to devide it at this point. Do I want to race in a series... of course I do, I want to run in a TSO race series, not an all out anything goes class, where I will need to continually have to change, upgrade and invest more money everytime someone has a wimm for increasing car count when it is not necessary. The majority of guys you have counted to race in the series are already BG TSO compliant, and a few could easily be, I believe if you are looking to organize this series, you should give positive support to the existing rules with just a few minor tweaks and most all will be happy.

Let me repeat what I said above.......... we are the representatives of the Turbo Buick to the rest of the world, the fastest and the most exciting, please remember that in the forming of our rules..... the devision needs to stop

[EightSecV6]

You will still need a dash for the points series, rule #8.

-STOCK dash:D

[EightSecV6]

I'd like to begin this response to Chris by sharing a conversation I and others, including Cal had with Richard Lassiter at Reynolds this past month.

Richard shared his vision of how he saw not only the Nationals but what he wanted to convey to the general public what true BUick performance was all about. When photographers and reps from the various magazines, performance tv programs and misc media showed up, he would like to have our cars look somewhat like they did when they left the factory. When the heads up classes line up, whether it be exterior, interior or under the hood, some semblance of a factory appearing car is desirable by him and I have to say by myself, not to mention, I am sure many others. The Nats are what the rest of the world sees, we are the representatives of the Buick turbo car era... For the first time I understood and had to agree with the way Richard saw things and why... The TS in the heads up class stands for Turbo Street.. Stock, Modified, Eliminator, Limited and Outlaw. Now here we are talking about opening up the Outlaw class even more..... when does it stop? We've already allowed way more than I think we should have, somewhere along the way, instead of continually changing the rules to include more combos and cars, we need to leave things alone and alow the participants to catch up and new participants to have a solid bedrock to build on, knowing that every year things are not going to be stepped up and changes are going to be continually needed.

To me, it looks as though Chris is taking a bit of a shot at Cal, OC, Otto and myself for voicing our opinions, for standing up and saying this is enough. Last year WE ALL agreed on a set of rules and I can assure you there were more than 3 or 4 guys involved. When you speak of ridiculous rules, such as turbo orientation, I don't see it that way, I refer back to my 1st paragragh. Not singling you out Billy, but oviously Chris has refered to you, there is no reason to not conform with the turbo rules as far as orientation and maintain some semblance of "stock" appearing. If we are going to be building cars for this class, lets keep it the stock orientation, seems simple to me. It's not like the cars are already built, I believe Avons, Chris, Tony, me, Cal, OC, Otto, Ted, Steve H., Rich R, Dave F., Art P., and I am sure many others I haven't named add up to far more than 3-4 racers..... The same goes for liquid ICers, none of these guys have them, why do we need to add this to the rules now? Makes no sense to me, why the argument, why all these changes, we have a dam good number of participants already, with more to be coming without the changes.

Chris, it appears to me, you are looking to put your signature on a new class, thats not helping OUR class grow, it only serves to devide it at this point. Do I want to race in a series... of course I do, I want to run in a TSO race series, not an all out anything goes class, where I will need to continually have to change, upgrade and invest more money everytime someone has a wimm for increasing car count when it is not necessary. The majority of guys you have counted to race in the series are already BG TSO compliant, and a few could easily be, I believe if you are looking to organize this series, you should give positive support to the existing rules with just a few minor tweaks and most all will be happy.

Let me repeat what I said above.......... we are the representatives of the Turbo Buick to the rest of the world, the fastest and the most exciting, please remember that in the forming of our rules..... the devision needs to stop

Jack,
I think this appears to be turning into an "us vs them" situation which will not benefit anyone. My personal opinion is that the GSCA rules are dated and the current points rules will not make the class any faster but they will make it easier to tech and enforce. ANY car that is legal to race in BG will be legal in the points series. I know alot of the TSO guys only race Buick events and if you discount test and tune sessions may only actually RACE once or twice a year. There are alot of other races available (non-Buick events) that some of us attend or would like to attend and if a car is built from scratch using the GSCA rules it cannot be competitive with V8 cars we are forced to race against in these classes. The series rules are more easily adapted to other events (minor changes) and if a car is built to GSCA specs it will still be competive in the series. The guys who intend to race at the GS Nats are STILL going to race there regardless of the series rules and they will STILL be just as competitive at every other TSO race they attend. The only argument I really see is the GS Nats not counting as a points race, why is that such a big deal anyway?

[Brad T]

Wasn't it Jack Cotton who opened up the whole can of worms with the turbo rules a few years ago?So much for not wanting change or opening the class up for different combos.

As far as the news coverage goes I don't know what car magazines you read but all of them I look at seem to have the fastest cars featured not the most stock appearing.

Who has Cal talked to the guys he knows are already legal with the old rules?He hasn't talked with me.

I think the rules are getting closer from what I see the last hang ups are the Turbo orientation,how stock the dash needs to be,inner fenders and lexan.

Does turning the turbo make any gain in hp?The ones I've seen turned it seemed to me like the flow gained from the down pipe was wiped out by the sharp bends made to get the exhaust in and the boosted air out.I say as long as the turbo is located in the front pass side and the down pipe goes along the top side of the motor and down the firewall it should be allowed.

As for appearance I think the outside of the car should look stock except for the safety equipment.The inside needs two matching front seats, carpet,headliner,and stock dash.Cut it up add what ever you want for gauges but when someone looks in the car it should look like it started its life as a Buick dash.

Inner fenders, I think we need them but if someone has already thrown them away and has custom work put in I say let them run as long as it they have some kind of inner fenders.

The only thing I really have any problem with is the lexan windows.
I can see the problem if you already have them in the car but unless you have changed the metal work for a few hundred you could put the glass back in.

In closing I want to say I respect the opinions of the guys who have run in the class the whole time.Dave,Cal and Odell in particular.You guys are always there and are a core part of the Buick family.I have always enjoyed seeing you run and look forward to racing with you next year.:beer:

Brad T.

[JCotton]

Brad, do you have any clue what you are talking about..... do you even know me? I have no clue who you are, have you ever spoken to me about this class, have you raced, participated in rules discussion, or do you get all your information from those you chose to talk to...... in other words, you come in here and make comments about things you may not even know about pertaining to rules discussions from years past and insinuate you know all about the ins and outs, what goes on behind the scenes, because someone you spoke to said it..... I have an African Grey that does the same thing, her name is Wanda, she's very good at repeating what she hears, just doesn't always come out right... or make much sense. Maybe you should try talking to more people and get more info before you make statements about what I am or am not involved in. I've been involved with these classes as long as anyone here you have mentioned, I have my opinions just as others do, I don't take shots because I may not agree with them. Your closing paragraph was obvious and the point was well taken, too bad you don't even know who I am as a person and a racer.....

As for the rules, I'm not a sheep and follow what appears to be others thoughts, I share my own as well and in the end, decide whether I want to participate or not. Pretty simple to me. I spoke my peace earlier today, explained why I felt the way I did, not much else to say otherwise. I'm not here to argue, make inuendos, or take cheap shots. Good luck Brad in TSO.

Oh, and by the way, in the last 3 years in TSO, I've finished 1st at Salem, 2nd at Salem and 3rd at BG, and been involved with other cars that have finished 1st and in the top 3 at other events. Oh ya, I didn't race this year as I hurt the motor in the spring and didn't get it back running until this fall.... I didn't bother to mention what races I participated in further back than 2 years since I figure you already know that. See, I've gone to the majority of Buick events the last 6-7 years and raced at almost every one of them, have you?

[Otto J]

I'd like to begin this response to Chris by sharing a conversation I and others, including Cal had with Richard Lassiter at Reynolds this past month.

Richard shared his vision of how he saw not only the Nationals but what he wanted to convey to the general public what true BUick performance was all about. When photographers and reps from the various magazines, performance tv programs and misc media showed up, he would like to have our cars look somewhat like they did when they left the factory. When the heads up classes line up, whether it be exterior, interior or under the hood, some semblance of a factory appearing car is desirable by him and I have to say by myself, not to mention, I am sure many others. The Nats are what the rest of the world sees, we are the representatives of the Buick turbo car era... For the first time I understood and had to agree with the way Richard saw things and why... The TS in the heads up class stands for Turbo Street.. Stock, Modified, Eliminator, Limited and Outlaw. Now here we are talking about opening up the Outlaw class even more..... when does it stop? We've already allowed way more than I think we should have, somewhere along the way, instead of continually changing the rules to include more combos and cars, we need to leave things alone and alow the participants to catch up and new participants to have a solid bedrock to build on, knowing that every year things are not going to be stepped up and changes are going to be continually needed.

To me, it looks as though Chris is taking a bit of a shot at Cal, OC, Otto and myself for voicing our opinions, for standing up and saying this is enough. Last year WE ALL agreed on a set of rules and I can assure you there were more than 3 or 4 guys involved. When you speak of ridiculous rules, such as turbo orientation, I don't see it that way, I refer back to my 1st paragragh. Not singling you out Billy, but oviously Chris has refered to you, there is no reason to not conform with the turbo rules as far as orientation and maintain some semblance of "stock" appearing. If we are going to be building cars for this class, lets keep it the stock orientation, seems simple to me. It's not like the cars are already built, I believe Avons, Chris, Tony, me, Cal, OC, Otto, Ted, Steve H., Rich R, Dave F., Art P., and I am sure many others I haven't named add up to far more than 3-4 racers..... The same goes for liquid ICers, none of these guys have them, why do we need to add this to the rules now? Makes no sense to me, why the argument, why all these changes, we have a dam good number of participants already, with more to be coming without the changes.

Chris, it appears to me, you are looking to put your signature on a new class, thats not helping OUR class grow, it only serves to devide it at this point. Do I want to race in a series... of course I do, I want to run in a TSO race series, not an all out anything goes class, where I will need to continually have to change, upgrade and invest more money everytime someone has a wimm for increasing car count when it is not necessary. The majority of guys you have counted to race in the series are already BG TSO compliant, and a few could easily be, I believe if you are looking to organize this series, you should give positive support to the existing rules with just a few minor tweaks and most all will be happy.

Let me repeat what I said above.......... we are the representatives of the Turbo Buick to the rest of the world, the fastest and the most exciting, please remember that in the forming of our rules..... the devision needs to stop

Great post Jack. Exactly how i would have wrote it.
Thanks for taking the time.
As you mentioned,whos cars that are going to run either race wont pass tech and why? We have all in the past had to change something on our cars to fit in from what they were.
Of all the cars that ran Salem who wouldnt fit in BG rules?

[Brad T]

Gee did I say something to offend you? Sorry I wasn't trying to start anything or insult you in anyway.

I know who you are and I have spoken to you in the past.I'm sorry you don't remember me.

Is it not true that a few years back you were the driving force to get the turbo rules opened up to allow other brands of turbos in the class?Even your bird can pick up and remember what is said in a public forum.As for Cal,Dave and Odell can you name any others that have raced in TSO at B.G. every year? Shouldn't that be worth at least the tip of the hat?Doesn't mean I am in anyones camp.

I have been to many Buick events over the past 15 years but you are right I have never ran in TSO.I have a real stock appearing GN Power windows,a/c,interior the whole deal.It ran 10.01 and I could really drive it somewhere when I wanted.After many passes at the track It lost a main brg. and put me on the side lines for awhile.

I decided I wanted to go faster so I have a complete stage two in the shop ready to go in.It's hard to work two jobs and find the time to build a car but I will have it done this year.

That is who I am does that mean I can't be a part of any rule discussion because I never ran the class before? I thought the whole idea here was to get more cars in the class.

[JCotton]

Allowing other brands of turbos in the class is not opening it up to larger turbos, just giving all the manufacturers a fair shake. My intentions were not to allow larger turbos, others may have taken the rules and stretched them somewhere they were not supposed to go, but then thats racing, isn't it. It doesn't mean the class should be opened up to a pretty much anything goes, they have classes for that already, it's called Quick 16. I, like you, had a very stock appearing car with what I thought was as far as I wanted to go 4 years ago.... and tried to keep it so as to not turn my 9.70 car into a race car by sacrificing my street manners....... well here we are and if you think this is a street car class, you are sadly mistaken. BG is one event, there are quite a few more than just BG every year, again, Wanda even pointed out to me whats been said in this forum, she reads over my shoulder and makes comments based on her own opinions. I pretty much know what I said and why, but I'm sure you don't know why I made the stands I did. But then I am sure you can check with someone else and learn their perception of what I do and say.

As for your participation here, have a ball, never said you shouldn't, simply had an opinion on your comments directed and indirectly toward me. Don't twist the facts...

[EightSecV6]

Great post Jack. Exactly how i would have wrote it.
Thanks for taking the time.
As you mentioned,whos cars that are going to run either race wont pass tech and why? We have all in the past had to change something on our cars to fit in from what they were.
Of all the cars that ran Salem who wouldnt fit in BG rules?

Otto,
You make a good point EVERYBODY that raced this year in Salem would be legal but I think the issue at hand here is to open up the class a bit and get more participation and more money and more events. The GS Nats already has a HEALTHY pay out promised in TSO for 2007. I have had this discussion with several of my customers/friends and debated if it is worth it to basically build 2 cars from scratch to meet the rules of the BG event and it simply is not.I can tell you that 2 guys who raced in Salem this year will absolutely refuse to go to BG for any reason and we are putting Jeffs car together, like you, he didnt get his car out last year and I can guarantee it wont pass peer tech in BG but meets rules of the series.If everyone is satisfied with the current GSCA rules then there is no need for an argument here just keep BG out of the points series. That will not hurt or help ANYONE who participates in the points, BG can be the BIG MONEY single race of the year and all the other events can be used for points since every car that is legal in BG is legal for the remaining TSO races. I personally just dont understand why there is a problem.I am not looking for a war.....just logic.

[Otto J]

I personally have no interest in running the points series,Most if not all races are way to far to go to have to be there no keep mainting points in a series.
I do like your point to keep BG the big money race and all others fighting for the points.If you building a car from scratch what are you looking to do to the car that would leave it out of the BG rules?
I realize you guys do run other non buick related races and want you can built more to run those races also,But what BG rules hold your car back from those races?
Im not nitpicking just curious.I would like to run some of the local radial tire classes this year also for fun.
I plan to run my car Drag Radial only this year.

[EightSecV6]

I personally have no interest in running the points series,Most if not all races are way to far to go to have to be there no keep mainting points in a series.
I do like your point to keep BG the big money race and all others fighting for the points.If you building a car from scratch what are you looking to do to the car that would leave it out of the BG rules?
I realize you guys do run other non buick related races and want you can built more to run those races also,But what BG rules hold your car back from those races?
Im not nitpicking just curious.I would like to run some of the local radial tire classes this year also for fun.
I plan to run my car Drag Radial only this year.



Basically these:

-turbo orientation
-dry sump
-headlights/horn
-alternator
-stock dash
-downpipe routed through stock location

[Fat Nat]

Yeah and if you guys didnt like were my turbo was the first time wait till you see it now!!

[Baadgn]

Yeah and if you guys didnt like were my turbo was the first time wait till you see it now!!

Well let me guess........ no headlight and non stock turbo orientation this is a hard one :hmmm:

[Baadgn]

[QUOTE=TurboDiverArt;135727]That's good. As long as it meets the rules to race then there should be absolutely no drama, issues or arguments.

Art.[/QUOTE/

You and I in the same class .......Ya right

[EightSecV6]

Yeah and if you guys didnt like were my turbo was the first time wait till you see it now!!

WHAT? shouldnt that be posted in the lounge?

[EightSecV6]

Well let me guess........ no headlight and non stock turbo orientation this is a hard one :hmmm:

Tony,
I responded to Ottos post with issues we would have with several cars we are putting together, Jeffs car actually has the headlights still in it, I dont know what he is spouting off about.

[Baadgn]

I'd like to begin this response to Chris by sharing a conversation I and others, including Cal had with Richard Lassiter at Reynolds this past month.

Richard shared his vision of how he saw not only the Nationals but what he wanted to convey to the general public what true BUick performance was all about. When photographers and reps from the various magazines, performance tv programs and misc media showed up, he would like to have our cars look somewhat like they did when they left the factory. When the heads up classes line up, whether it be exterior, interior or under the hood, some semblance of a factory appearing car is desirable by him and I have to say by myself, not to mention, I am sure many others. The Nats are what the rest of the world sees, we are the representatives of the Buick turbo car era... For the first time I understood and had to agree with the way Richard saw things and why... The TS in the heads up class stands for Turbo Street.. Stock, Modified, Eliminator, Limited and Outlaw. Now here we are talking about opening up the Outlaw class even more..... when does it stop? We've already allowed way more than I think we should have, somewhere along the way, instead of continually changing the rules to include more combos and cars, we need to leave things alone and alow the participants to catch up and new participants to have a solid bedrock to build on, knowing that every year things are not going to be stepped up and changes are going to be continually needed.

To me, it looks as though Chris is taking a bit of a shot at Cal, OC, Otto and myself for voicing our opinions, for standing up and saying this is enough. Last year WE ALL agreed on a set of rules and I can assure you there were more than 3 or 4 guys involved. When you speak of ridiculous rules, such as turbo orientation, I don't see it that way, I refer back to my 1st paragragh. Not singling you out Billy, but oviously Chris has refered to you, there is no reason to not conform with the turbo rules as far as orientation and maintain some semblance of "stock" appearing. If we are going to be building cars for this class, lets keep it the stock orientation, seems simple to me. It's not like the cars are already built, I believe Avons, Chris, Tony, me, Cal, OC, Otto, Ted, Steve H., Rich R, Dave F., Art P., and I am sure many others I haven't named add up to far more than 3-4 racers..... The same goes for liquid ICers, none of these guys have them, why do we need to add this to the rules now? Makes no sense to me, why the argument, why all these changes, we have a dam good number of participants already, with more to be coming without the changes.

Chris, it appears to me, you are looking to put your signature on a new class, thats not helping OUR class grow, it only serves to devide it at this point. Do I want to race in a series... of course I do, I want to run in a TSO race series, not an all out anything goes class, where I will need to continually have to change, upgrade and invest more money everytime someone has a wimm for increasing car count when it is not necessary. The majority of guys you have counted to race in the series are already BG TSO compliant, and a few could easily be, I believe if you are looking to organize this series, you should give positive support to the existing rules with just a few minor tweaks and most all will be happy.

Let me repeat what I said above.......... we are the representatives of the Turbo Buick to the rest of the world, the fastest and the most exciting, please remember that in the forming of our rules..... the devision needs to stop

Jack,

You hit it right on the head I think some changes need to be made, and you know I am always pushin to go faster. But the one thing I belive is that these cars need to keep up stock type apperance

[Brad T]

Jack you will have to enlighten me.Who is it I am supposed to be talking to?

I haven't found anyone on here that I totally agree with.I think I am somewhere in the middle of wanting the rules opened up to let more cars in and not wanting to see gutted out cars in the class.

I understand the problems that can come with rule changes.When I started building my car I wanted to run our local EZ street races.At the time a 5.70 would put you in the game.Over the last couple of years the rules have changed.Now they run foggers and Big Chief heads on 600+ cu/in motors.It takes a 5.20 or better to even have a chance.But as you said that is racing.

In this case however we are all running the same motor and the same size turbo the rest is just in the details.We might all choose to build them differently but would it be any fun if we all had the exact same car?

[HighPSI]

I would bounce a T6 flanged turbo from the class, that is just common sense. That is a rule infraction that would have an affect on overall power and would not be allowed to run. The class is limited to a T4 flange and a T5 has a penalty how would someone conclude that a turbine flange larger than T5 is allowed in the class?

I must not have a current set of rules. Where does it say that a T6 is illegal in your rules? I was looking at post#72 titled Final Rules
http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15230&page=4

[TurboDiverArt]

That's good. As long as it meets the rules to race then there should be absolutely no drama, issues or arguments.

Art.

You and I in the same class .......Ya right
I have no idea what that means Tony?

We're in a TSO rules discussion. You asked if I would be racing in that series and I said yes I would be in a TSO legal car. I then asked the same question of you. If you're not going to be racing in TSO then why are you posting in this thread? I'm not taking a shot, just curious.

Art.

[HighPSI]

I have had my car at the track the last two days, so am just now getting caught up on this thread.

The changes I proposed above were in an attempt to have the same rules at EVERY race. I was under the ASSumption that most racers wanted Bowling Green to count for the point series. To be honest, I don't think anyone is happy with that proposal. It was an attempt at a compromise. Sometimes the best compromise occurs when neither side is happy.

There seems to be two philosophies here:
Chris' rules are focused primarily on the performance aspect with the attitude that if doesn't make the car faster it's "ok" (with the exception of turbo location and liquid intercoolers).
The GSCA rules are still conscious of appearance. Like Jack stated earlier, Richard's philosophy is to have these cars appear streetable (door panels, inner fenders, glass windows, etc..). The other racers (and sponsors) I have talked to have agreed, to some extent, with that philosophy.
When I mention speaking with racers, it isn't just the small group that Chris implies. There are several others who for whatever reason don't want to publicly post on this subject.
I will post this again, for those of you that don't know it. My phone number is (321)863-2303.

As it stands right now. It appears that there won't be any compromise, the GSCA rules will stay the same, and it won't count for the points series. If there only 4 cars at BG (doubtful), then those 4 racers will be well paid. Nobody can say I didn't try.

FWIW: I have been asked by the Race Director at National Trail to coordinate the TSO class there. In the next few weeks I will be gathering up sponsorship money for that event. Hopefully, I can match Bowling Green's success.

[Ted A.]

It appears that a compromise has been made from Cal on the GSCA rules. So far I see Liquids allowed with a imposed penalty, exhaust rule has been modified, the only concern is the overall appearance of the cars competing which I have to agree I would like to see what we have been seeing for years.


Maybe a compromise on the turbo location would be a imposed weight penalty for non-conforming turbo locations. Since I think the intent of Chris's rules are to get more cars in this might be in order and we can close these rules up.


I will for the record say that I would prefer the rules to stay the same (GSCA) and have full exhausts, no liquids, no sideways upside down under the car turbos, full interiors, T5 flanged turbos, but I would like to see a points series happen and I am willing to bend on what "I want" to get something off the ground. I have no problem bending a little, but I am growing tired of all the whining and complaining behind the scenes by other who are not out here posting what they feel is a compromise. Compromise is important and necessary to get something worked out.

Thank you to all the current and future racers who have put in their input to this discussion and all you others need to get out of the bushes and help contribute to what it is we all love to do.

[Otto J]

Im not really happy with the ex at the flywheel rule.Anyone who has run in the last few years has had to have this.Why throw it away now after guys that have run have spent the time and money to be in these rules.
Opening them up kinda gives guys coming in less to do than the guys that made the class.

[Brad T]

Cal I am happy with the changes in the rules you have made.I think in is a step forward to get more cars in.If the liquid intercooler rule stands my car will be able to run at B.G..

I guess the only things still holding anyone up are these.

-turbo orientation
-dry sump
-alternator

-stock dash
-downpipe routed through stock location
-headlights/horn
The first three I don't really care one way or the other about.The last three I agree the cars need to be stock appearing and the downpipe is both non stock appearing and a performance gain.

[JCotton]

Cal I am happy with the changes in the rules you have made.I think in is a step forward to get more cars in.If the liquid intercooler rule stands my car will be able to run at B.G..


Things are now much clearer, I didn't realize you had a LQ IC. Thats kewl, LQ is beginning to look better to me, anyhow. I've been wanting to build one, I can then switch out depending on what class or event I run. I really didn't want to have to invest more into my car, but I'll figure out something, maybe Lorrie and Wanda can buy me the parts needed for Christmas... Brad, can you give us a little info about your set-up...... thanks

Almost forgot...... as for the rest of the stuff...... heck, let it all go, with some of the other stuff being allowed, it just doesn't seem fair to pick and choose whats ok and whats not.... I should have time to rethink my combo and make changes to benefit me, I see plenty of opportunity for adding HP. Of course this doesn't mean I will run TSO..... but will attend events and I will race a class providing my car is running..

[Brad T]

Not much to tell about my car.Stage 2,ATR headers,sheet metal intake,old PTE 88 and the Liquid intercooler.Put the Intercooler in the stock location hoping the short inlet pipes will help the thing spool quicker.

[JCotton]

Not much to tell about my car.Stage 2,ATR headers,sheet metal intake,old PTE 88 and the Liquid intercooler.Put the Intercooler in the stock location hoping the short inlet pipes will help the thing spool quicker.

Brad,

I meant your LG-IC, can you fill me in on how it's set up and works..

[Brad T]

It's a PTE unit I mounted it to the core support just behind the rad.The turbo is in the stock location with a 4 inch 90 right into the cooler.I used the spare tire well for a sump.I haven't made a pass with it yet so I can't say how well it works.It seems to my simple mind the liquid has much less area along with the shorter run between the turbo and intake the thing should spool quicker.

[EightSecV6]

Ted,
What is "going on behind the scenes" and Who is involved? If they cant post on this board (I realize there are some who absolutely fear posting on another board but that is the breaks!) and put their name out there, someone else needs to do it for them.They need to be heard.

Otto,
No way to get the exhaust to the rear end on a 25.5 car unless you section the floor and run it over top of the frame work, that would look like crap for one and it definately wouldnt sit well amongst the "peers". A 25.5 spec is required for cars running faster than 8.50 and while the GSCA couldnt care less in regards to safety, some of us have familys who count on us to come home in one piece in order to be fed and safety is a top priority.Running 165mph in a 3650# race car is unsafe as well but hey keep the penalties coming.

I would like these question answered by anyone who really cares:scared1: :

-Will someone point out to me where the problem lies?
-Why cant the series rules be left as they were?
-WHO is going to come to ANY of the other events that will not be racing in BG and bring somethin not suitable to race?
-Why are guys who are concerned with the BG race counting for points NOT EVEN RACING FOR POINTS?

I will state this publicy especially if it has any bearing on the "new" rules. There are 4 registered points racers that will absolutely not be racing in BG and it doesnt matter if the prize is $50k!
-Myself
-Jeff Beish
-Aaron Thorppe
-Rich Rezes

Correct me if I am wrong BUT those not racing for points:
-Cal
-Jack
-OC

Why lobby to change "points series" rules if your not racing in it? Is anybody who is not attending BG lobbying to change there rules? I dont see it. I feel singled out, nearly everything that I have mentioned that wasnt IN THE ORIGINAL SERIES RULES is now NOT permitted or it is penalized or kept the way the RRA for BG wanted it, yes Cal that is you. Dont be scared lil buddy, if we line up it will be over in less than 8.57 seconds....trust me.

[JCotton]

Correct me if I am wrong BUT those not racing for points:
-Cal
-Jack
-OC

Why lobby to change "points series" rules if your not racing in it? Is anybody who is not attending BG lobbying to change there rules? I dont see it. I feel singled out, nearly everything that I have mentioned that wasnt IN THE ORIGINAL SERIES RULES is now NOT permitted or it is penalized or kept the way the RRA for BG wanted it, yes Cal that is you. Dont be scared lil buddy, if we line up it will be over in less than 8.57 seconds....trust me.

I can't speak for anyone else Bill, have you seen anywhere I said I would not race in the points series..... like you, I shared my thoughts on the rules, when the discussion is over, I will make my decision sometime after that and the 1st race... Like you, I have no quoms about saying what I feel needs to be said, I don't care for the Series rules, I feel they completely change the complextion of the original TSO class. You just made a point I believe really says it all, to be competitive in the class we will all need to go faster than 8.50, we will all then need to have certified chassis rated to 7.50..... thats a lot more money to race next to you.... If the cars you are building don't conform to the existing rules of TSO, why not race the classes you are building them for? ... for Chris to change the rules just for you is incredibly reckless and does not have the original TSO class, past participants, investment in mind. No disrespect here Bill, but that is the way I feel. This in no way is saying I won't make changes to be competitive, just stating that I don't like it.

[EightSecV6]

I can't speak for anyone else Bill, have you seen anywhere I said I would not race in the points series..... like you, I shared my thoughts on the rules, when the discussion is over, I will make my decision sometime after that and the 1st race... Like you, I have no quoms about saying what I feel needs to be said, I don't care for the Series rules, I feel they completely change the complextion of the original TSO class. You just made a point I believe really says it all, to be competitive in the class we will all need to go faster than 8.50, we will all then need to have certified chassis rated to 7.50..... thats a lot more money to race next to you.... If the cars you are building don't conform to the existing rules of TSO, why not race the classes you are building them for? ... for Chris to change the rules just for you is incredibly reckless and does not have the original TSO class, past participants, investment in mind. No disrespect here Bill, but that is the way I feel. This in no way is saying I won't make changes to be competitive, just stating that I don't like it.

Jack,
I am not asking for a change for any rules so I dont know where that came from, The series rules I originally FULLY agrred to have been CHANGED multiple times to compliment the race at BG and I DEFINATELY didnt ask for that either, they should have in my opinion just been left alone.EVERY car that complies with the BG rules was legal in every way shape or form to compete in the points series.

[Otto J]

Otto,
No way to get the exhaust to the rear end on a 25.5 car unless you section the floor and run it over top of the frame work, that would look like crap for one and it definately wouldnt sit well amongst the "peers". A 25.5 spec is required for cars running faster than 8.50 and while the GSCA couldnt care less in regards to safety, some of us have familys who count on us to come home in one piece in order to be fed and safety is a top priority.Running 165mph in a 3650# race car is unsafe as well but hey keep the penalties coming.



DAMN!! That is not something i need to worry about,My car wont be nearly that fast.I hear ya though,I am not really concerned about the points series rules at this point,Make them what you want.I may show up for a race or 2,But ill be well within whatever the rules are.Rumor is your bringing 4 cars to these events so it would definetly be in Chris's best interest to keep the rules so these 4 Anderson cars conform to keep car count up.

I gotta say with what your lobbying,It sounds like your race car motor is making its way into a TSO car with the Turbo mounted out in front where he bumper is:yikes:

[EightSecV6]

I gotta say with what your lobbying,It sounds like your race car motor is making its way into a TSO car with the Turbo mounted out in front where he bumper is:yikes:


It obviously sounds to me like that was the assumption as of a phone call this morning HENCE THE NEW rule regarding turbo location.

Dont know where the 4 car thing came from either????? I'm lost....again, oh well

[Baadgn]

Why lobby to change "points series" rules if your not racing in it? Is anybody who is not attending BG lobbying to change there rules? I dont see it. I feel singled out, nearly everything that I have mentioned that wasnt IN THE ORIGINAL SERIES RULES is now NOT permitted or it is penalized or kept the way the RRA for BG wanted it, yes Cal that is you. Dont be scared lil buddy, if we line up it will be over in less than 8.57 seconds....trust me.

Don't hold back Bill let it all out

[EightSecV6]

Don't hold back Bill let it all out


my head hurts........:shocked:

[Otto J]

-Myself
-Jeff Beish
-Aaron Thorppe
-Rich Rezes



I count 4
1 Blue car
1 black/silver
1 grey car
1 silver car

[EightSecV6]

I count 4
1 Blue car
1 black/silver
1 grey car
1 silver car


To clarify:D :D :

I intend to bring ONE car, the other guys are also regestering as points racers so I assume they intend to bring a car to each event as well, however none of the above will be attending BG! That is the point I was really trying to make. Now I am lost, my head hurts and I am sleepy.

[HighPSI]

I feel singled out, nearly everything that I have mentioned that wasnt IN THE ORIGINAL SERIES RULES is now NOT permitted or it is penalized or kept the way the RRA for BG wanted it, yes Cal that is you. Dont be scared lil buddy, if we line up it will be over in less than 8.57 seconds....trust me.


:crybaby: PLEASE.....dont tell me what you can do, SHOW me what you can do! :arco:

[EightSecV6]

:crybaby: PLEASE.....dont tell me what you can do, SHOW me what you can do! :arco:

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.....what board did you copy that quote from, I like it.:anbet: :anbet: :anbet: :anbet: :anbet: :anbet: :anbet: