Would this block be allowed in TSM?? You be the judge!!!

[86brick]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178105

Just going by the TSM rules I'd say so:arco:

"Buick V6 production block casting (generally the 25526109 block, although, older non-Stage blocks allowed). <250CID maximum."

Does Bamford already have one??:shock:

[Otto J]

I believe that block is a 4.1 casting,If so no way on TSM

[86brick]

I believe that block is a 4.1 casting,If so no way on TSM

The block has 3.79" bore..... And even if it was a 4.1 I was under the impression that the production (aka non Stage blocks) 4.1s are allowed so long as it is <250"!

[Otto J]

The fact that a 4.1 can have a 4.0 bore, You can get big CI out of itSame as a stage motor with a 3.625 crank.

"Buick V6 production block casting (25526109 block only). Must be less than 250CID"
Right from the rules on the GSSC website

[86brick]

The fact that a 4.1 can have a 4.0 bore, You can get big CI out of itSame as a stage motor with a 3.625 crank.

"Buick V6 production block casting (25526109 block only). Must be less than 250CID"
Right from the rules on the GSSC website

I understand this but as I said if it's got a 3.8 bore and it's less than 250cid why wouldn't it be legal?? Basically as long as it meets the CI limit there is no advantage to it being able to have a 4.0 bore.. Also, apparently the GSCA TSM rules are different from the TSM point series rules from the gnttype.org TSM site.. http://www.gnttype.org/tsm/rules05.html:confused:

[86brick]

Bottom line, I know the "powers that be" along with the other TSM racers would never let it fly because it is not readily available to everybody else like a 109, but the way the original rules were written (at least the ones I got from the gnttype.org site) this would seem legal (especially the way it states "generally the 25526109 block, although, older non-Stage blocks allowed.")..... Freddy has no plans of running TSM, but I thought this was interesting nonetheless because IMO it is a LOT like the distributor controversy that was caused when Dave showed up at BG last year..

[Otto J]

I didnt realize the different rules,I only read the GSCA rules.
Your right it doesnt say it has to be a 3.8 block,But if you are running at BG it must be

[JayC]

I had a chance to buy one of those blocks years ago. I called Jim Ruggles and talked to him about it and he told me that is was inferior compared to a Stage block and not worth the trouble over a stock block so I passed.

[86brick]

I had a chance to buy one of those blocks years ago. I called Jim Ruggles and talked to him about it and he told me that is was inferior compared to a Stage block and not worth the trouble over a stock block so I passed.

Do you remember off hand how much you could've gotten it for?? I can tell you Freddy got this one for about the price you would pay for a decent 109 block!

I guess it depends on how you look at it, but in terms of strength I think it is definitely worth the trouble over a stock block.. It doesn't have the extra head bolt holes so it certainly won't help with keeping the heads from lifting, but in terms of the bottom end I'd think the 4-bolt center mains/thicker main webbing would be worth it...

[Otto J]

But if you find one and it doesnt already have 4 bolt centers,it would be mush more costly to add the caps than a girdle, most likely
But hell bore it out to 4.0 and add a 3.625 crank and get teh 274 CI

[86brick]

But if you find one and it doesnt already have 4 bolt centers,it would be mush more costly to add the caps than a girdle, most likely
But hell bore it out to 4.0 and add a 3.625 crank and get teh 274 CI

Yeah he was lucky enough to get this one already having the caps... That is the other advantage that I forgot to mention in the previous post, the potential for extra cubes:doh:

[Ted A.]

I would not protest that particular block. If it busted a big ## there are some that may think it is over CI limit but maybe that might be enough to get sombody to actually pump sombody down.

[JayC]

Do you remember off hand how much you could've gotten it for?? I can tell you Freddy got this one for about the price you would pay for a decent 109 block!

$500.00

[86brick]

I would not protest that particular block. If it busted a big ## there are some that may think it is over CI limit but maybe that might be enough to get sombody to actually pump sombody down.

Yeah it certainly would be a good excuse for Scott to break out the P&G meter...

[86brick]

$500.00

Freddy paid $450 for his so I guess they haven't gone up in price much!

[c&cgn]

I would buy one of those in a second !!! Especially at that price. That's a cool find. :applaus:

[Mike10secv6]

..........

[Scott231]

Rats, I posted a big reply to this earlier but as I hit the Post Reply the boss walked by and I alt-tabbed...

A non-production block is not allowed in TSM.

The Point Series rule on the engine block is different as I am opposed to the GSCA's insistence on using 109 blocks. I find it more fair to allow the originally delivered blocks from any Regal from '81-'87 as per the FSA rule.

[86brick]

Thanks for the clarification Scott.. I was pretty sure the Points Series rule was soley for production blocks, but in this case because this block is technically not a Stage block just figured I'd stir the pot a little:beer::naughty: Also, as I said earlier in this thread I know it wouldn't be fair to allow this block in because of it being a fairly rare piece (not readily available to everybody else).. Makes all the sense in the world IMO to allow the other production blocks in as long as they were delivered in a Regal from '81-'87 as you stated per the FSA rule.. Wonder why the GSCA insists on a 109??:kopfkratz :stupid:

c&cgn, You and me both!!!! I was pretty shocked he got that block for that price... Just goes to show that it pays off to keep your eyes and ears open cause you never know when a good deal like that can just fall in your lap!

[Turbo Archie]

Make that three people.....

[Otto J]

Makes all the sense in the world IMO to allow the other production blocks in as long as they were delivered in a Regal from '81-'87 as you stated per the FSA rule.. Wonder why the GSCA insists on a 109??:kopfkratz :stupid:

!

Why would you use any other production block in TSM? I dont believe any regal came with anything more than a 3.8 block,And if your gonna try to compete in TSM a NA 3.8 probalby wouldnt take the abuse needed

[JayC]

That block actually predates Buick Motorsports and all the Stage stuff by a couple of years.

Like I said, Jim Ruggles said it wasn't worth the trouble. Your mileage may vary.

[broke1]

Paul from SE Turbo actually has a block similar to that in his car.Said he got the block from Ruggles too....

[86brick]

Why would you use any other production block in TSM? I dont believe any regal came with anything more than a 3.8 block,And if your gonna try to compete in TSM a NA 3.8 probalby wouldnt take the abuse needed

I think the point is why stop somebody from trying.... I know a few guys have run pretty strong with the hotair 3.8 blocks... Laz had a Ttype years ago that ran mid 10's @130mph with an .040 over '85 block and his car was heavy (3700-3800lbs if I remember correct)... I know he sold the car but from what I remember he drove this car to and from the track!

[86brick]

Paul from SE Turbo actually has a block similar to that in his car.Said he got the block from Ruggles too....

Dayum sounds like Ruggles may have been hoarding these blocks!

[JayC]

Dayum sounds like Ruggles may have been hoarding these blocks!

Its probably not the same block. There was a LOT of oddball stage stuff floating about 10 years ago. Some REALLY strange pieces.

This particular block I have only ever seen pop up once. Like I said, it's older than normal stage stuff and I seem to recall the reasoning behind Ruggles poo poo'ing it was something to do with nickel content.

To give you an example of oddness that you see surface from time to time, ever seen a set of 8445 heads cast out of aluminum? :arco:

[Phatman]

Its probably not the same block. There was a LOT of oddball stage stuff floating about 10 years ago. Some REALLY strange pieces.

To give you an example of oddness that you see surface from time to time, ever seen a set of 8445 heads cast out of aluminum? :arco:

Yea!!

We had a set, but no numbers on them, really rough cast, similar to pre 80's heads. My cousin sold them on e-bay about a year ago. The came form an estate sale along with a truck and car trailer full of stuff.

[86brick]

Its probably not the same block. There was a LOT of oddball stage stuff floating about 10 years ago. Some REALLY strange pieces.

This particular block I have only ever seen pop up once. Like I said, it's older than normal stage stuff and I seem to recall the reasoning behind Ruggles poo poo'ing it was something to do with nickel content.

To give you an example of oddness that you see surface from time to time, ever seen a set of 8445 heads cast out of aluminum? :arco:

Definitely never seen alum 8445 heads!!! Wow, yeah I remember Lee Fredricks (old time Buick guy from down here) telling me some of the odd ball Stage stuff he used to see in the golden age (late 80's early 90's) with his buddy Ricardo LaCosta that still works for GM... Short stroke Indy BMS cranks (3.0x and even 2.xx), various sheetmetal intakes, etc.. He told me that the race teams would drop their old stuff off and let it go for next to nothing and some of it that most would still consider very usable was just chucked into the dumpster!!!!:shock:

[JayC]

Yea.. I had some of those short stroke cranks. Ive also seen some oddball stage blocks with the cam journal raised, etc. Some really wierd pieces out there.

I guess Lee is out of Buicks now. A friend of mine just bought his car not too long ago.

[86brick]

Yea.. I had some of those short stroke cranks. Ive also seen some oddball stage blocks with the cam journal raised, etc. Some really wierd pieces out there.

I guess Lee is out of Buicks now. A friend of mine just bought his car not too long ago.

Yeah Nelson Hernandez(sp?) bought his car.. I'm sure you know Nelson is no stranger to the Buicks cause I seem to remember him having a twin turbo Stage2 car that ran 8.40's way back when... Lee is out of the Buicks, purchased an '06 GTO last I heard and already has a crapload of go-fast parts for it!

[JayC]

Nelson had a twin turbo car? Really?

[86brick]

Nelson had a twin turbo car? Really?

Yeah I guess you would already know that:duh: LOL:sleep: :mog:

[JayC]

http://www.ctrl-alt-l33t.com/pics/timeline2.jpg

[86brick]

http://www.ctrl-alt-l33t.com/pics/timeline2.jpg

Mean kid.......:sad2: